Craig Farmer

Witness for the Defendant:  Penalty Phase

December 1, 2004

Direct Examination by Pat Harris

HARRIS: Good Afternoon, Craig.

FARMER: Good afternoon, Pat.

HARRIS: You met, officially on this chart I was going to sort of write what year they started, came into Scott's life or meeting Scott. What year was it, actually?

FARMER: Met Scott?

HARRIS: Yeah.

FARMER: 1972.

HARRIS: When he was born?

FARMER: Yes.

HARRIS: You are related to Joanne we just saw, is that correct?

FARMER: That's correct. She is my mother.

HARRIS: That's your mother?

FARMER: Yes.

HARRIS: That's your mother?

FARMER: Yes.

HARRIS: So you were obviously familiar with the Peterson family?

FARMER: Yes.

HARRIS: Did you grow up in San Diego?

FARMER: Correct. Grew up in San Diego.

HARRIS: How did you end up becoming acquainted with the Petersons?

FARMER: It was so long ago, I don't really remember. They have just always been in my life. Obviously with my mother, you know. I met them, I guess, probably I must have been five or six when we moved to San Diego from this area.  I don't really remember the first meeting. But they have always been there.

HARRIS: Okay. Have you known them since that time? Has it been consistent in your life?

FARMER: I moved away from San Diego in 1991, so I have kind of physically lost contact with them. But through my mother I was always aware of, you know, kind of where they were at, what was going on and that. So it has been fairly constant, yes.

HARRIS: Where do you currently live?

FARMER: I live here in Redwood City.

HARRIS: What do you do for a living?

FARMER: I'm a manager for a landscape company.

HARRIS: Now, at some point, I assume mostly your relationship with the Petersons was a social relationship as you were growing up?

FARMER: I did work for them for a number of years. From, I believe, June of 1983 until probably June or July of 1991.

HARRIS: So you worked for about eight years?

FARMER: That's correct.

HARRIS: That's at the crating business?

FARMER: Yes. San Diego Crating, correct.

HARRIS: What did you do for them there?

FARMER: Build crates, packed stuff, that type of thing. I was going to college at the time, and they were always very, very flexible as far as my schedule and needs and that went.

HARRIS: Sort of my next question. What were they like as employers?

FARMER: Extremely fair. Very, very nice. As my mother stated, and Jeff Cleveland before, there was never any great drama, or anything like that. It was always very straightforward and very pleasant. It felt like family. It was always a job, but it still felt like family.

HARRIS: Did you see them in terms of the way they, the family interacted with each other?

FARMER: Yeah, constantly. Every day.

HARRIS: We have heard Mr. Cleveland just talk about a lot of family members worked there?

FARMER: Yes.

HARRIS: How would you, as far as just looking at the family and sort of talking about their interaction, how would you classify, how would you say their interaction, what was it like?

FARMER: I was actually very jealous of their interactions. They were just so together, and that there was no animosity towards each other. I wish I would have had more to that in my life, coming from a divorced family. I was somewhat envious of their relationship.

HARRIS: When you say envious, and so forth, what specifically, give me an example of the kinds of things you are talking about.

FARMER: Well, the relationship that Lee had with his sons impressed me very much. I was close to my father, but I do not have the relationship that he has with his sons. And it was something I always admired greatly.

HARRIS: Now, you are actually how many years older than Scott?

FARMER: Six or seven years older.

HARRIS: Six or seven years?

FARMER: Yeah.

HARRIS: Did you have much interaction with Scott while you were working there?

FARMER: A little bit. I would see him in the afternoons. He would come in with his father. Sometimes he would show up on his own. I was usually very busy at the time. I had probably much closer relationship with his older brothers Joel and Mark. But I did see Scott quite often.

HARRIS: What would he be doing there when you were there?

FARMER: He would be fooling around with his father, or talking about golf, or, you know, where he was in school. He would be sometimes out working in the shop on stuff. He was always around doing something.

HARRIS: Did he seem kind of shy to you?

FARMER: I do have a fond memory of him hiding behind his mom's legs when he was a little boy. That somehow always stuck with me. Even though he did grow out of it. It just reminded me of myself when I was that age. I think I must have been ten or twelve. And by that points he was probably about five or six. And we came over one time, and he was very shy. And I hadn't seen him for a year or two in that period. And just struck me as really funny. But reminded me of myself at that age.

HARRIS: Looking back on your work experience at San Diego Crating, and your experience working with the Petersons, did you say, or would you say that you have a great deal of respect for the family?

FARMER: Absolutely.

HARRIS: Great deal of respect for Jackie and Lee?

FARMER: Yes, very much so.

HARRIS: And given the family dynamics and what you saw at work, would you say it's a very close family?

FARMER: I would say they are very, very close family, yes.

HARRIS: Thank you, Craig. That's all I have.