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Lisa Krueger
Witness for the People: Guilt Phase August 3, 2004
Direct Examination by Rick Distaso DISTASO: Ms. Krueger, were you present at the candlelight vigil for Laci Peterson on December 31st, 2002? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And what time did you arrive there? KRUEGER: Approximately 4:45. DISTASO: And the vigil was held down in the La Loma Park area by the Covena residence? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: The -- when you got there, roughly how many people were there? KRUEGER: There was several hundred. DISTASO: Several hundred? And were these just people from the community? KRUEGER: I would assume, yes. DISTASO: Okay. Let me ask you, was this kind of -- was this identified or put out as a community event? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And did you see a -- any type of media presence there? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And can you describe for the jury just briefly what kind of media presence you saw. KRUEGER: There was several trucks and vans. Up along the side. DISTASO: When you arrived there, was the stage -- was there a stage in place? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And did you see members of Laci Peterson and Scott Peterson's family present on the stage? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: At -- did you stay -- from the time you got to the vigil, did you stay until the end? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: At the time -- the whole time you were there, did you ever see the defendant in this case, Scott Peterson, go up on the stage with the family? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: Let me show you some photographs. I'm going to mark ten photographs, your Honor. JUDGE: 176 A through J. Mr. Geragos, have you seen these? GERAGOS: Yes, your Honor. DISTASO: Let me show you some photographs. This is, to start with, People's 176 A and 176 B. Do those photographs accurately depict the stage area of the vigil as you saw it on December 31st, 2000 and 2? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Let me show you 176 C, D, E, and F. And G. Do those photographs accurately depict the -- the crowd and community presence that was there at the vigil as you saw it on December 31st of 2002? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And the media trucks that you were describing, are those reflected in 176 E and 176 F? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Did you see the defendant in this case, Scott Peterson, present during the vigil? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And where were you standing while the vigil was taking place? KRUEGER: I was towards the back of the crowd. DISTASO: And in these photographs, 176 E and 176 F, can you see yourself in those pictures? Let me ask you this: There's a lot of people in these pictures, correct? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Okay. What color coat were you wearing that day? KRUEGER: Black. DISTASO: Let me see if I can help you out here. Is that you in the picture? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: All right. And then did you remember if Scott Peterson was wearing any particular kind of hat? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: What color was his hat? KRUEGER: Blue. DISTASO: Okay. Do you see Mr. Peterson in these pictures at all? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Okay. If you could, could you circle where you are in the photograph and just write your name, Lisa Krueger, and then circle where the defendant is, and just -- JUDGE: Just put L K. DISTASO: Actually, you can put L K, and circle where Scott Peterson was. You can just put an SP. KRUEGER: Okay. DISTASO: Okay. So just for the record, you've -- you marked 176 F. All right. And then again, you're wearing a black coat. Is that you, correct? Here -- is that you there in 176 E? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: All right. Go ahead and circle it. And then is that the blue cap that you saw for Mr. Peterson? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Okay. The -- now, where you're standing in these photographs, was this towards the front of the stage -- I mean of the area where the vigil was taking place? Or towards the back? KRUEGER: Towards the back. DISTASO: And it looks like from these pictures Mr. Peterson was, what, four or five people in front of you? KRUEGER: That's correct. DISTASO: Okay. Could you -- I'm sorry? Could you see him? KRUEGER: I could see -- yes, I could see him. DISTASO: Did you observe his demeanor while the vigil was taking place? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And what was his demeanor? How would you describe it? KRUEGER: He didn't really display any emotion. DISTASO: At some point during the vigil, or towards the end of the vigil, did you see Mr. Peterson walk up towards the front -- or closer towards the stage? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Did you ever see him get up on the stage? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: Did you observe his demeanor while he was down closer to the stage? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And how would you describe his demeanor then? KRUEGER: He seemed to be smiling. DISTASO: Let me show you People's 176 H. Does this picture accurately reflect Mr. Peterson's demeanor as you saw him when he was closer down towards the stage? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Now, did you see him at all after that time when you saw him down towards the stage? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: And did you see him at all over by some candles that were placed on the ground there? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: Okay. When you saw him after the -- after you observed him there, how long did you see him down there at the stage? KRUEGER: Briefly. DISTASO: Okay. KRUEGER: Went down there. DISTASO: After you saw him down at the stage, where did -- where did you see him next? KRUEGER: I saw him as he was leaving. I was standing in a -- with some family and friends. DISTASO: Did you ever see him go towards the area where the candles were displayed on the ground? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: Do you remember a -- an area at the vigil where there was a display of candles? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Let me just ask you this: Do you recognize these two pictures, 176 J and 176 I, as accurately depicting Mr. Peterson at the vigil that you attended? KRUEGER: Not these particular ones. DISTASO: Okay. And is that because these are the -- this is the candle area? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: All right. And you never saw Mr. Peterson go down to that particular area? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: All right. JUDGE: Did you show the witness G? DISTASO: I believe I did, your Honor. Let me check. Yes. Oh, actually, I did not. Let me show you -- I think I did, but just to be sure. Let me show you C -- actually, C I showed you. Let me show you G. Does 176 G accurately depict the crowd as you saw it at the vigil? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Miss Krueger, this is 176. Actually, your Honor, instead of showing them on here, because it kind of gets washed out, I'm going to ask if I can pass these around to the jury. JUDGE: I think we'll do that after Mr. Geragos cross-examines. If you want to move them into evidence at that time, then we'll do it at that time. DISTASO: That's fine. JUDGE: We'll let him cross-examine first. DISTASO: Okay. No further questions. JUDGE: Or Mr. Harris, you want to cross-examine? I and J there's no foundation. DISTASO: That's right. I pulled those aside for the time being.
Cross Examination by Pat Harris HARRIS: Good afternoon, Ms. Krueger. KRUEGER: Good afternoon. DISTASO: Your Honor, actually, I think, just for the record, it's I and J that -- okay. JUDGE: I and J. No foundation on I and J. HARRIS: Before you went to the candlelight vigil did you know Scott Peterson? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Did you have any type of a -- had you ever met him before? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: When you saw him at the vigil, that was the first time you had seen him in person; is that correct? KRUEGER: In person, correct. HARRIS: And I assume you recognized him from television, that type of thing? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: You -- you got there about 4:45; was that your testimony? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And I believe you testified to the police that you were late at that point? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: The time period that you were standing there watching the vigil, did Scott mill around, kind of walk around the crowd at all? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: He stood in one position? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And that was throughout the whole vigil that you saw? KRUEGER: Yes, during the vigil. HARRIS: Okay. And I believe Mr. Distaso asked you he was about four to five people in front of you; is that about right? KRUEGER: Yes. To the front and a little over to the side. HARRIS: Did you watch him the entire time? KRUEGER: Not the entire time. HARRIS: You weren't stalking him or anything? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: You were just occasionally glancing over to take a look at him? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: So is it fair to say that, during the course of the vigil, that you didn't watch him -- at least 50 percent of the time you weren't watching, right? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: In fact, it's probably fair to say that the vigil lasted about how long, that you recall? KRUEGER: Probably 45 minutes. HARRIS: Okay. And during that 45 minutes it's safe to say you weren't looking at him more than five or ten minutes? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: So his range of emotions or his emotions, what you testified here today is basically a small part of what Scott Peterson did at that vigil; is that correct? DISTASO: Objection. It calls for speculation. JUDGE: No, overruled. Based on what she saw. KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: You don't know what his emotions were like during the remaining time? You weren't looking at him, did you? KRUEGER: I -- yes, during that time when I was standing behind him, I would occasionally look because I was surprised to see him in the back, and I did not see any display of emotion from him. HARRIS: But you just admitted that during the -- most of the time you weren't looking at him, correct? KRUEGER: Most of the time, that's correct. At the times that I did observe him. HARRIS: So he could have been experiencing a range of emotions and you wouldn't have known, right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: In fact, I believe Mr. Distaso showed you what has been marked as 176 H. Do you remember seeing that? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And I believe your testimony was that this correctly appeared to be the way that you saw Scott Peterson at the vigil; is that your testimony? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: Objection, your Honor. Misstates the testimony. JUDGE: Yeah. She said when he was close to the stage she saw him smiling. HARRIS: Okay. When you were close to the stage and you saw him smiling, it's my understanding your testimony was is this accurately reflects the way he was at that point; is that a fair statement? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Okay. Did that include the puffy eyes? KRUEGER: I don't see that his eyes were puffy. HARRIS: He doesn't look like a man that's been crying there? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: So when you're seeing him standing there, you don't see any evidence whatsoever that he had been emotional? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Now, you told Mr. Distaso that you watched as Scott left and came close to the stage, toward the end of the ceremony; is that correct? KRUEGER: We walked that ways, yes. HARRIS: And is it your testimony that you -- were you following him at that point? KRUEGER: No, I went to see family and friends that were over in that area HARRIS: So you just saw him approach the stage; you weren't actually trying to see what he was doing? KRUEGER: I saw him standing there by that stage. HARRIS: Okay. And it was at that point that you say you saw him smiling, in essence? KRUEGER: I saw him smiling, correct. HARRIS: Previous to that you had testified that you just saw him standing in the audience, emotionless, right? KRUEGER: During the vigil, yes. HARRIS: Now, you've been interviewed a couple of times by the Modesto Police Department, haven't you? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: An investigator actually, I believe, from the district attorney's office; is that right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Okay. And during those -- first of all, how -- did you contact the Modesto police? KRUEGER: Yes. It was -- they said that they -- it was a -- a friend that said they wanted to speak to me regarding the vigil. HARRIS: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. KRUEGER: It was a -- actually my family member said that they wanted to talk to somebody who had attended the vigil, and they gave me their number. HARRIS: A family member? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Of yours? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Told you that they wanted to talk to somebody who had been at the vigil? KRUEGER: Correct. HARRIS: Is the family member a member of the Modesto Police Department? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Then how did you get in contact with the -- either the district attorney's office or Modesto police? KRUEGER: I was given their phone number. HARRIS: By whom? KRUEGER: By my family member. HARRIS: And who is that? KRUEGER: Patty. HARRIS: Patty Amador? KRUEGER: Correct. HARRIS: Patty Amador is a very good friend of Sharon Rocha's? KRUEGER: Correct. HARRIS: Your first interview was in February of this year, correct? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Prior to that, for a year and two months, you'd never spoke to anybody about anything, did you? About this Scott Peterson case or Laci Peterson case? KRUEGER: No. The -- HARRIS: You never -- I'm sorry? KRUEGER: Can you repeat your question. HARRIS: You never spoke to anyone for a year and two months about this vigil, or anything about what you had seen that day, did you? KRUEGER: Yes, I had spoke to people. HARRIS: You had never spoken to the police department? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: And you had never spoken to the district attorney's office? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: But you had told other people? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Okay. And so it wasn't until you were first interviewed in February of this year; is that right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And, in fact, you were interviewed twice in February -- once in February of this year and once in March of this year; is that right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Your first interview they asked you about the vigil, right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: They asked you about what you had seen? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: You never once mentioned to the police at that point that you had seen Scott go to the stage and smile, did you? KRUEGER: It was a brief phone interview that they contacted me at work. I told them I attended the vigil and I did see Scott and that he was a few rows in front of me. HARRIS: In fact, the only thing you told them on that interview was that he was a few rows in front of you and that you couldn't see the pain in his face; is that correct? KRUEGER: I did not see pain in his face, that's correct. HARRIS: That's the only thing you told them? KRUEGER: I'm not sure. HARRIS: Do you recall telling them anything else? KRUEGER: I believe that I just stated that I saw him at the vigil, he was standing in the back a few rows from me, in front of me, and that -- that I saw him later throughout the vigil by the stage. HARRIS: You did tell them that you saw him later by the stage, in that interview? KRUEGER: On the first one? HARRIS: Yes. KRUEGER: Probably not the first one, no. HARRIS: Okay. So the whole first interview you never mentioned what you testified to today about going and seeing Scott going up to the stage with a big smile on his face, and so forth? You never told them that? KRUEGER: Probably not on the phone interview. It was brief. HARRIS: Okay. Well, let's take a look at the second interview then. The second interview, the Modesto Police Department, and Kevin Bertalotto in particular, comes over to your house with two photos, right? KRUEGER: Actually came to my office. HARRIS: Came to your office, I'm sorry. He came to your office to show you two photographs; is that right? KRUEGER: I did see two photographs at that time. HARRIS: Okay. One of which -- well, actually, you were shown both of these two photographs; is that accurate? KRUEGER: That's correct. HARRIS: Okay. And when he asked you – JUDGE: You want to identify which ones they are? HARRIS: I'm sorry. It's 176 I and 176 H. JUDGE: Okay. HARRIS: And when he showed you these photographs, he asked you if that accurately depicted Scott Peterson's demeanor at the vigil, didn't he? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And, in fact, at that point you had told him that Scott Peterson was emotionless prior to that, correct? KRUEGER: Yes. During the vigil he was. HARRIS: And he was not smiling, right? DISTASO: Objection. Not -- misstates her testimony, for one thing. JUDGE: Overruled. It's cross-examination. Overruled. HARRIS: I believe she did testify he was not smiling. JUDGE: You can ask her. Go ahead. HARRIS: Correct? KRUEGER: During the vigil, that's correct. HARRIS: Right. And then he showed you these photographs, and then after that you still didn't tell him about the incident going to the stage, did you? KRUEGER: Yes. I believe -- I said Scott Peterson was at the stage. I believe I told him that prior to seeing the photos. I was very clear that I saw Scott Peterson at the front of the stage. HARRIS: I'd like you to take a look at a supplemental report. This is a report prepared by Kevin Bertalotto of the district attorney's office. It's in reference to a March 17th interview with Lisa Krueger. Can you just look at that, just read it to yourself? KRUEGER: The highlighted area? HARRIS: Any of it. Just read the -- it's very short. KRUEGER: Okay. HARRIS: There's a second one as well. KRUEGER: Okay. HARRIS: At no point in the interview did you tell Mr. Bertalotto that you had gone to the stage and had seen Mr. Peterson smiling, did you? KRUEGER: Yes, I did tell him that. HARRIS: In fact, what you told him was, once he showed you the photographs, you identified that photograph and said Oh, that's Scott Peterson, the one where he's smiling. You never once told Mr. Bertalotto, did you, about this incident of going to the stage – DISTASO: Objection. HARRIS: -- smiling? DISTASO: Asked and answered. JUDGE: Overruled. You can answer. KRUEGER: Yes, I did tell him. HARRIS: You did tell him? KRUEGER: I remember telling him prior to seeing these photos. I was very clear on seeing Scott at the front of the stage, smiling. HARRIS: And that's nowhere in this report, is it? KRUEGER: It doesn't appear to be. HARRIS: You were asked about the media presence. You saw a lot of media present, right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: You also were asked if you saw Scott Peterson at any point on the stage, and you said I didn't see him at any point on the stage; is that right? KRUEGER: I did not see Scott on the stage. HARRIS: Okay. Since you're a friend of the family and Patty Amador and Sharon Rocha, were you privy to any discussions about the media and how Scott Peterson should handle the media? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Were you aware of any strategy as far as what would be the best way for finding Laci and how Scott should handle that? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Were you privy to any discussions whatsoever about the media and Scott Peterson? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: All you knew when you showed up that day is that Scott Peterson wasn't on the stand; is that right? KRUEGER: I looked – JUDGE: On the stage. HARRIS: On the stage. KRUEGER: I looked up on the stage and I saw various family members, and I wondered if Scott was there. HARRIS: And my question was is you don't -- you weren't present or privy to any information about Scott Peterson and how to handle the media and how he was advised to handle the media, are you? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: By the way, you don't -- the picture you were shown which you identified as accurately -- I'll go back. This is 176 H. That one. KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: You don't have any knowledge of when that picture was taken, do you? KRUEGER: After the vigil. HARRIS: After the vigil? KRUEGER: During the -- want to call it -- a ceremony's probably not the correct word, but after the closing prayer, people were gathering over to the candle side. And we had walked -- I walked forward. Scott was up at the front of the stage. I went to find friends and family members to join with them. That's when I saw Scott, after people were down from the stage, smiling. HARRIS: That wasn't the question. KRUEGER: As a -- HARRIS: Do you know when this picture was taken? KRUEGER: After the vigil was over. HARRIS: Did you see the picture being taken? KRUEGER: I can't -- no. HARRIS: You don't know the context; you don't know at what point it was taken or what Scott Peterson was doing at that time, do you, when this picture was taken? KRUEGER: I saw him socializing. HARRIS: You didn't see this picture being taken, did you? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: So you have no idea what was going on at the moment this picture was taken, do you? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: That's all I have.
Redirect Examination by Rick Distaso DISTASO: This picture, you said you saw him socializing. This was after -- right after the closing prayer of the vigil? KRUEGER: Correct. DISTASO: And this picture accurately depicts how he looked when you saw him, correct? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: So you didn't -- you're not the photographer of this picture; is that right? KRUEGER: That's correct. DISTASO: Okay. But what we're seeing in it is an accurate depiction of what you observed? KRUEGER: That's correct. DISTASO: Now, these pictures, 176 E and F, where the defendant was standing in front of you, the entire -- I mean the -- the kind of ceremonies or formal portion of the vigil lasted for about how long? KRUEGER: Probably an hour. 45 minutes to an hour. DISTASO: So -- and during that time, the defendant was in front of you the whole time? KRUEGER: During that, yes. DISTASO: Okay. So counsel was asking you if you, you know, spent all your time watching. You didn't spend your entire 45 minutes or an hour staring at the defendant? KRUEGER: That's correct. DISTASO: But you would look over and see him during that time? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: At different times throughout that 45 minutes or hour? KRUEGER: Yes. DISTASO: During that time that you looked at him, was he displaying any emotion? KRUEGER: No. DISTASO: Nothing further, your Honor.
Recross Examination by Pat Harris HARRIS: When you say they accurately depicted his -- I'm sorry, Rick. When you say this accurately depicted -- again, 176 H. When you're saying this accurately depicted his -- I guess you termed it as socializing after the vigil was over; is that right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Okay. When he was -- after the vigil, when he was up, I believe, near the stage, you said, were you present with him? Were you around him? KRUEGER: Over to the side of him, yes. HARRIS: Could you hear what was going on? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: You have no idea who he was talking to or what they were talking about? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Did you happen at any point -- by the way, in your testimony you stated that you had seen him -- not seen him by the candles; is that right? KRUEGER: No, I did not see him in that area HARRIS: Let me have you take a look at that picture. JUDGE: What's the number, Mr. Harris? HARRIS: That is 176 J. JUDGE: Okay. KRUEGER: I didn't see him there. HARRIS: That person standing in the middle by the camera -- by the candles look like Scott Peterson to you? KRUEGER: Yes, it does. HARRIS: With a couple of children? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Holding the hand -- I believe he's holding it behind one of the children, pointing out something? KRUEGER: I'm sorry? HARRIS: He's holding out -- holding a hand behind somebody, I can't say if he's holding her hand or not. That's Scott Peterson? KRUEGER: Yes. The man behind the girl is Scott Peterson. HARRIS: So you watched him -- Mr. Distaso said you were looking over all the time, but somehow he managed to sneak over to the candles and sat there with these children and did that without you noticing any of that, right? KRUEGER: That was – DISTASO: I object, your Honor. It's compound. Misstates what my question was, for one thing. JUDGE: No, it's cross-examination. Overruled. KRUEGER: That was after the vigil. That was after the formal ceremony. HARRIS: So you did see him go over to the candles? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: Well, how do you know it was after the ceremony? KRUEGER: Because that's when the people were putting their candles over in a taped-off area. They were setting their candles over there. I was over there at some time, but I did not see Scott over there. HARRIS: So if I've got this right, then, after the ceremony, after the vigil is over, people came and took their candles and sort of walked over and put the candles down somewhere; is that -- KRUEGER: Yes. There was an area for that. HARRIS: Okay. And that's when you saw Scott approach the stage? KRUEGER: No. HARRIS: After the vigil was not when you saw him approach the stage? KRUEGER: Oh, yes. Yes. HARRIS: And what you say when he was up there talking to these other people, or whatever, that was when -- that was after the vigil was over? KRUEGER: Correct. HARRIS: I want to take one more look at -- where's the picture where she marked it? DISTASO: Do you have any pictures up there? HARRIS: Do you have a couple? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Which is the one you marked? KRUEGER: This one. This one. This one. HARRIS: Okay. Now, this is 176 F, and I believe you -- when Rick asked you specifically to mark where you are, it's a little hard to see, but that's you right here with the red circle? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: Okay. And four to five people up through the crowd and behind the blue cap is Scott Peterson, right? KRUEGER: Yes. HARRIS: And it's your testimony that, basically, while you were at the vigil, you could -- you were looking at him periodically through that crowd to see what his emotions were; is that right? KRUEGER: I was looking at him occasionally. HARRIS: And you could see him with no problem? KRUEGER: I could see him with no problem, that is correct. HARRIS: Okay. That's all I have. DISTASO: Nothing further, based on that. GERAGOS: While we're doing this, can we recall this witness for just one question? JUDGE: Sure. GERAGOS: No, we can stipulate that Ms. Krueger is Patty Amador's sister. DISTASO: That's fine. JUDGE: All right. There's been a stipulation then that this witness, Lisa Krueger, is Patty Amador's sister. That's not a dispute. |