|
Pin Kyo
Witness for the People: Guilt Phase September 13 & 14, 2004
Direct Examination by David Harris CLERK: Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly state that the evidence you shall give in this matter shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? KYO: I do. CLERK: Be seated. State and spell your name for the record. KYO: My name is Pin Kyo, P-I-N, K-Y-O. CLERK: Thank you. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, where do you work at? KYO: I work for California Department of Justice crime laboratory, located in Ripon. HARRIS: And what is your occupation for the Department of Justice? KYO: I'm a criminalist. HARRIS: Can you -- how long have you been with the Department of Justice? KYO: I've been working for Department of Justice for six years. HARRIS: To be a criminalist, do you have any background, education or training that allows you to be a criminalist? KYO: I have a Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry, and I've been trained in -- I have taken classes for -- to become -- to become...anyway, I had a bachelor's degree in chemistry. And I also have a classes that -- given by California Criminalistic Institute, and they have formal classes to become a criminalist. And I've taken a lot of classes like that. And I have 500 hours of lectures, reading material, and doing the exercise experiments to do the job. HARRIS: Okay. Let me take you back through that a little bit. You said the California Criminalistics Institute. Does the Department of Justice have, like, it's own school for its employees? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And the California Criminalistics Institute, is that where the Department of Justice has senior experienced trained people lecture and instruct newer employees in different areas and fields of forensics? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Now, as part of this -- would you consider that to be kind of e on-the-job training that you receive? KYO: If -- if it is given class by the CCI, or California Criminalistic Institute, that's a formal training where you got certificate. And also we have also in the laboratory that I work with there's qualified senior criminalists who also train me. HARRIS: Okay. So that's another aspect – KYO: Another – HARRIS: of on-the-job training? KYO: on-the-job training, correct. HARRIS: So you come in with the background that you have, you're employed by the Department of Justice, and they send you to the CCI classes, formal education? KYO: Uh-huh. HARRIS: Then there's also a program where they assign you to senior criminalists where you learn certain proficiencies before you can actually start doing case work? KYO: That's correct. GERAGOS: Objection. HARRIS: There was an objection? JUDGE: I didn't hear it. GERAGOS: Leading. JUDGE: I'll overrule it, just to get through it. GERAGOS: Foundation? JUDGE: Yeah. Go ahead. HARRIS: And with the -- your background, formal classroom education and the on-the-job experience, have you received certification that allows you to be proficient and to work actual case work in certain areas? KYO: Before anybody at our lab start doing actual cases, they have to go through the proficiency. A proficiency is a blind unknown item, and then we're supposed to examine it, and we're supposed to get the right answer, and before we can proceed with the working on a actual cases. So I have done -- done proficiency tests before I started, and also annually you have to do proficiency tests. HARRIS: What I want to get into right now is what is your current assignment? What is the actual part of the laboratory that you are assigned to do work in? KYO: I work in the serology section, which is work with the biological fluids, all physiological fluids, like blood, semen, and saliva HARRIS: Are you also assigned to do general evidence examination? KYO: That's correct. That would be part of my duty. HARRIS: To do to go back through this, what is the general evidence examination? KYO: That is when you get evidence, you document what it is, and note -- and collect all the trace evidence, and for other analysts to be taking a look at. HARRIS: Now, within the Department of Justice at the Ripon laboratory, do you have certain individuals that are assigned to certain areas so if you find something in general evidence you would send it to them? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: For example, is Rod Oswalt one of the persons that does hair comparisons? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: So if you're doing a general evidence exam and you find hairs or fibers, you would send those to him? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: I want to go back through this and ask if at some point in time you were assigned to participate in a Central Valley case number dash 02-01094 -- 41? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And that's the case that's related to Scott Peterson? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Now, as cases or evidence comes into the laboratory, are they assigned certain request numbers? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And is it the request number -- a report is generated for each one of those request numbers? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: In this particular case, what I want to do is just start with the first request that you were involved with and kind of work through it sequentially from there. Referring you to request number 01, were you involved in the first request that came in? KYO: I'm involved with the request number one. HARRIS: Okay. And did you write that particular report when your examination was done? KYO: I did. HARRIS: If you need to at any point in time refer to your notes – GERAGOS: Bates number stamp on that? HARRIS: That would be 023423. GERAGOS: Thank you. HARRIS: The first thing I want to talk about is when you -- when you start to do one of these examinations, do you receive evidence from the agencies? KYO: I receive evidence from agency, started on December 30th, 2002. HARRIS: So on December 30th some evidence comes in from the Modesto Police Department? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And does the police department kind of give you an idea of what they would like you to look for? KYO: They will have a specific instruction as to what they want to look for on evidence items. HARRIS: And as you go through this process that you described for us, this documentation, do you examine the things as you try to do this? Or perform these tests for them that they ask for? KYO: I did. HARRIS: I want to talk about one of the very first items. Did you happen to receive some mops and buckets? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And as part of the process of documenting this, do you take photographs of the items and also write notes in your case notes? KYO: That's what I did. HARRIS: Okay. And when I say case notes, these are running notes that you make of notes that might include drawings or notations – KYO: Right. HARRIS: about what you observed? KYO: Right. HARRIS: I'd like to have marked next in order a series of photographs. JUDGE: 239. How many have you got? HARRIS: Five. JUDGE: A through F -- A through E. CLERK: A through F? JUDGE: A through E. There's five of them. CLERK: Okay. GERAGOS: I'm sorry, Judge, what was the exhibit number? JUDGE: Two oh -- 239 A through E. GERAGOS: Thank you. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, I'm going to present to you what's been marked as 239 and go through these. A through E. Ask if you look at those real quick and see if you recognize them. KYO: I recognize them as the photos I've taken of the mops and bucket. HARRIS: Now, these photographs, do they accurately depict the items that you received from the Modesto Police Department and examined? KYO: They do. HARRIS: All right. I want to start with putting up on the board 239 A. Can you describe for the jury what this particular item is? KYO: It's a sponge mop with a blue handle. And when I received it, I put it -- I photographed it and I document that it has a detergent smell, meaning is used to clean something with it, so it has left-over detergent smell. And also I observed some brown stains on the -- at the end of the handle over here. And I also -- and I tested -- and I tested some of the stain over in this area. HARRIS: Let me put the next photograph up, which is a bigger photograph, 239 B. KYO: This is a photograph of the sponge, of the sponge mop. And on the sponge mop I saw only debris and hairs, fibers on it. So I document that. HARRIS: Let me go back through this. GERAGOS: I'm sorry, so I – JUDGE: Pardon me? Debris. KYO: Debris and fibers. GERAGOS: Did you say something after that? HARRIS: I believe she said So I documented that. KYO: I document that. GERAGOS: Thank you. HARRIS: To go back through this, you said you were initially examining the mop and that you observed or that you smelled something? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Was it the whole mop that smelled, or any particular part of the mop that smelled? KYO: Especially the sponge part that might come in contact with the liquid solution that you try to clean with. So, that part. HARRIS: Did you document in your notes what kind of smell this was? KYO: Referring to my notes, I stated that it smelled detergent on sponge. HARRIS: Detergent? KYO: Detergent. HARRIS: Showing you 239 C. If you can describe for us what this was. KYO: This is a string mop, and I documented by photograph. And, again, I noticed a smell of a detergent that been used to mop with before. And I also observe hairs, fibers and debris on the string part of the mop. HARRIS: Now, in terms of the compare -- did you compare this mop to the other mop at all? KYO: I just generally documented; but what you mean by "compare"? HARRIS: Well, I was just noticing, looking at your notes on page twelve, did you make some type of notation as to the -- how used or how -- the lack of use for this particular mop? KYO: Oh, I have seen mops before, but in this case it looked pretty clean, meaning like no mildews build up because if they don't use detergent or some kind of brown stained build up on the mop. So it's just in general observation. It's not dirty mop, as compared to clean mop. HARRIS: Okay. Now, you also said that you examined the buckets. So let me put up the photograph of that. 239 D. GERAGOS: D as in dog? HARRIS: Yes. HARRIS: And is this a photograph of the bucket that you received from the police department? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And, again, you went through the process of photographing it and making notes and documenting it? KYO: I did. HARRIS: Did you also take a photograph looking down into the bucket? KYO: I also take photograph of inside also. HARRIS: So let's put that one up, 239 E. And, if you would, could you describe for us what you see in this picture, what you found during your examination? KYO: It's a blue bucket, and I observe there several different off-white stains inside. As you can see. And also on the outside. And there is also some light brown stain on the outside. And I also detected a detergent smell from the bucket. HARRIS: Now, when you're talking about a detergent -- detergent smell, I don't know if you can describe that for us any better than that. Is it – KYO: I -- I call it detergent, like a liquid soaps or whatever you use to do -- clean the mop -- clean the floors. HARRIS: So the smell that you associated with the sponge mop, the string mop, and the bucket was something that was equivalent or close to a commercial cleaning product? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: All right. Now, this particular photograph that we're looking at there, 239 D, there's some -- some -- something up there; I don't really want to describe it as white. Kind of an off-white powder? KYO: That's correct. Off-white powders. And also at the bottom on -- let's see, refer to my notes. I observe dirt and debris here. HARRIS: Okay. Now, you described also on the mops and the bucket that there was some of these brown stains. Did you -- did you test those stains at all? KYO: I did. HARRIS: And what kind of test did you perform on that? KYO: I test for -- I did a presumptive test for blood. It's called leuco -- LMG testing. Do you need spelling? I need to refer to my notes. It's a big words. So... HARRIS: That will make the court reporter happy. KYO: Right. Leucomalachite, L-E-U-C-O-M-A-L-A-C-H-I-T-E, and Green, G-R-E-E-N. And we refer to that as LMG testing, and that is a presumptive test. HARRIS: And the presumptive test that was done, you had results for those? KYO: I tested stains on bucket, as well as I -- on the string mops and the sponge mops. They're all negative for presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: So just because if there's a stain there, it doesn't mean that it's blood, but it's a good idea to go ahead and test it using the chemical test? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Now, when you were looking at this particular bucket, is this -- we've seen the wrapping paper that was around the bucket in the previous photograph. Did you have to take the wrapping paper off to look down inside of it? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: And this photograph, does this document how it was when you were first looking down inside it? KYO: That's -- that's correct. HARRIS: Now, you indicated that you found -- to go back through this, that you found hairs, fibers and dirt from the sponge mop, not as many on the string mop, and that you found some inside bucket as well? KYO: Referring to my notes. JUDGE: She said dirt and debris. I don't think she said hair in the blue bucket. KYO: I just said dirt and debris on that. HARRIS: So there were no hairs on the bucket? KYO: That's what my -- my notes stated, yes. HARRIS: Now, besides the -- the mops and the bucket, did the police department also provide you with other items to test as part of that first request? KYO: There is several different other items. GERAGOS: Bates stamp? HARRIS: They're all in order. 2344344. GERAGOS: 23? HARRIS: 2344344. Going through the notes. Maybe to speed it up, have the next series of photos marked. JUDGE: 240. How many have you got? GERAGOS: 240? HARRIS: Five photographs. JUDGE: Five, okay. A through E. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, can I show you what's been marked 240 A through E. Have you look at these real briefly, see if you recognize them. KYO: I recognize them as the photograph I've taken of the blue tarp and the boat cover, and the items collected from the boat cover. HARRIS: And these items, these photographs, do they accurately depict the items that you were taking the pictures of? KYO: They do. HARRIS: Starting by showing you 240 A, you can describe for us what this is and what you found when you examined it? KYO: It's a blue tarp, and I noticed it has a mildewy smells when I received it. So I'm sure you know that when item is used and keep it wet, there is a bacteria buildup and you got mildew smells. So that's kind of smell I got. And I also observed sawdust, dirt, and pollen, like a part of flowers and grass stain, like green, greenish stain. Actually, the dirt stain I was questioning, it was found around here. It -- it appear as a gray stain at the beginning, but when I use a swab, it has a greenish color. So I think that is a dirt -- I mean like a grass stain. And I also found some hairs and fibers on -- on the tarp. On this area over here I found a piece of paper and was -- with tape on it. HARRIS: And these particular items -- to go through this process. If you were -- you're examining something as part of general evidence and you find these items that you're describing, are those removed or saved some way instead of just being put back on the tarp? KYO: Trace evidence such as hairs and fibers, I will collect them for -- for if they wanted to take it -- test it later on, eventually. So I collect the hairs from this -- hairs from this blue tarp. HARRIS: And, again, that's -- that's something that would go to the person who's assigned to do the hair comparisons? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Now, I want to move on from the blue tarp. As part of the boat cover, did you also collect some of this trace evidence and put it into a container? KYO: On the boat cover, referring to that note, I observe a -- chunks of concrete-like materials falling out of the boat cover. So I collected them also. HARRIS: All right. Let me go through this with the photographs to make it easier. Showing you 240 B, is this a photograph of the boat cover that the Modesto Police Department gave you? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And as part of this process of the documentation, did you make any observations? Looking at it, smelling it when you first started? KYO: I observe that there is a gasoline smells coming out of the boat cover. HARRIS: And I want to ask you about looking at this particular photograph here, 240 B. Is this examination being done in one of your -- your examination rooms? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: And is this laying on a couple of tables that have been put together? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Do you put something between the table and the object? KYO: I put a white butcher paper, just to make sure that there's no contamination from the room onto the boat cover. HARRIS: And if something comes off the boat cover, is it easier to see on the butcher paper? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: If something does come off, do you collect that? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Showing you 240 C, is this a closeup? It's kind of hard to see here, but is this a closeup of the boat cover? KYO: That's a different sections of the boat cover. The beginning part is where -- if you will -- there's the -- for a boat there's an engine end and then far away from engine end, that's called bow, and then closer to the area is called stern. And so the first photograph shown was the bow end of the boat. And this would be the mid-ship or middle part of the boat. HARRIS: Putting up 240 D. KYO: This -- this would be the stern end of the boat cover. And this is a cover for the engine. HARRIS: Okay. We just saw a little -- so we understand this. This particular boat cover is not just for the boat; it actually has a part of the cover that will go over the engine? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And in some of the photographs you can actually see it, to the very right just above the exhibit tag and going up past where the engine cover portion would be, there's some little tabs that stick out. Are those things that allow the cover to be attached to the boat or the trailer? KYO: That's what I would think that's what they are for. HARRIS: Now, you indicated that this had a gas smell. Did you continue to examine it besides just smelling it? KYO: I examine for stains on the cover inside and outside, and I looked for bloodstains using the LMG presumptive test. And they all negative. HARRIS: Did you notice that there was any additional -- or that there was any trace evidence at all associated with the boat cover? KYO: Referring to my notes, I -- let's see. HARRIS: I'll tell you what, while you're looking at that, let me put up 240 E. I'll refer you to page 26 of your notes. KYO: Okay. HARRIS: When you were looking at the boat cover, did you notice if there was any trace evidence or debris? KYO: I -- I -- there are debris that fall off from the boat, which is these chunks of material. HARRIS: Okay. To go back through that, you've told us about putting up this butcher paper. So as you examine the boat cover, you're saying that debris falls off. This item here in this little plastic container, this is the debris that came off of the boat cover? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Did you look at this or examine this debris at all? KYO: I collected it for examination for later, if they want to examine it. HARRIS: And what did it appear to be to you? KYO: It appeared to me, looking at it, it looked like possible concrete chunks. HARRIS: Did you gather up -- when you were all done looking at it, gather it up and save it somehow so it could be examined? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: If I could have marked People's next in order. JUDGE: 241. HARRIS: It will be a bag and contents. JUDGE: Okay. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, I'm going to present to you 241. Ask if you've seen this envelope before? KYO: I -- I do not recognize the outer envelope. HARRIS: Have you looked at the inside envelope previously? KYO: I did with -- this afternoon. HARRIS: With Detective Grogan? KYO: With the Detective Grogan. HARRIS: And does it appear to have some writing on the front of the outside envelope that says C Grogan with a number and a date? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: If you would go ahead and remove the inside envelope and see if you recognize that one. KYO: I recognize the envelope labeled as transfer envelope. It's my writing, with the case number and item number. HARRIS: Now, the item number for the boat cover from Modesto PD, that was number 43? KYO: (Nods head) HARRIS: I'm sorry? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And did you attempt to use whatever number -- Modesto PD assigns something a number, 43 or 45 or 100, did the Department of Justice try to keep that number, if they could? KYO: We try to keep it as consistent as the agency assigned to them. HARRIS: Okay. And now, inside this envelope, is there a smaller envelope with the debris inside of it? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And do you recognize that with your initials and your handwriting? KYO: I recognize it with my initial and handwriting. HARRIS: Okay. And this is what you put the debris that we're looking at up on the photograph into this little envelope, put it in the bigger envelope, and gave it to Detective Grogan? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And you got it from Detective Grogan today in that outside envelope? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Okay. If you could go ahead and put those back into each envelope. KYO: (Witness complies) HARRIS: Did the Modesto Police Department also give you item number 48, which is identified as a dog leash? And I'll refer you to page 28 of the notes. KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Have this marked as next in order. JUDGE: 242. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, if I can show you what's been marked as 242, if you to look at this photograph and see if you recognize it. KYO: I recognize this as a photograph taken of a leash given -- from -- that I examined. HARRIS: Is this one of the evidence items from the Modesto Police Department? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And this photograph, does it accurately depict the item that you looked at, you examined? KYO: It does. HARRIS: What I want to do is go ahead and put this up on the board. Miss Kyo, I don't know if you can really see it from there, but what I want to talk about with this photograph is there's a little ruler-like item towards the middle of the photograph. Is that something that you placed with the leash when you took the photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And is that something that you do as part of the documentation process of going through this? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And does it bear the case number for the Department of Justice that we were talking about before? KYO: That's correct -- that's correct. That would be CV 0210941. HARRIS: And the -- next to that is the date. Is that the date that you do the examinations? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then below that there's an analyst and then there's some initials there. Do you recognize those initials? KYO: That is my initial. HARRIS: And then to the left of that where it has item number, this particular item has item number 48? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So when we've been going through looking at these photographs, we can tell what the agency number is and who the analyst information is by looking at these -- I don't want to say little placards, but little rulers? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, do you go through the same process of examination with this particular leash, looking at it to see whether it smells or what debris or trace evidence might be there? KYO: In this particular case or item I -- I observe -- well, this leash has two ends, one is a smooth surface and the other end is a little rougher surface. And where the clasp is, I found lots of hair. Possibly dog hair. And also I look for bloodstains, whether they had it or not. And I didn't found anything that look like bloodstain. HARRIS: Now, when you look at this for bloodstains, do you just kind of hold it up to the eye and look at it? KYO: I visually examine it to look for bloodstain, as well as using a Lumilight, which is like a black light, and you will see stain that you might not be able to see under normal light. HARRIS: Did you also look at it under a stereoscope? KYO: Referring to my notes. In this case I did not look -- note it as looking under a stereoscope, but in some points I will -- as required, I will look under a stereoscope also. HARRIS: Do you have – KYO: Oh, actually -- actually, I put a note in here that under stereoscope also. I'm sorry. HARRIS: Okay. Just want to go back through that. So you did examine this particular leash under a stereoscope as well? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Page 28 is what you're looking at? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: Page 28. Bates number 23453. GERAGOS: Thank you. HARRIS: Can you explain to us what a stereoscope is? KYO: A stereoscope is like a magnifying glass, like, but it has two eye pieces. So whatever you're seeing, it magnify to look at it, smaller items. HARRIS: And besides just looking at it visually, with the light source and the stereoscope, did you also take any of the swabs that you have told us about that you were trying on these other items? KYO: That’s correct. I try to sample different area of the leash just to make sure that there's no blood. HARRIS: When you say you sampled other areas of the leash, can you explain that? KYO: I went along the length of the leash and then swab the leash, the specific area, and then I test it for blood. HARRIS: And the results were? KYO: They're all negative for presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: Now, you were also given some -- another item by the police department, number 57. So I want to refer you to your notes there. Page 30. If I could have another series of photographs marked. JUDGE: 243 A through? HARRIS: Six photographs. JUDGE: A through F. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, let me present again to you 243 A through -- I think it was F. See if you recognize what's depicted in these photographs. KYO: I recognize A through D as a photograph that I've taken of the comforter cover, or the duvet cover, and 243 E and F is a photograph of -- I did not take in this photograph, but is a cutting of the duvet cover, that I've taken from the duvet. HARRIS: Okay. Just, now, so where clear about that in 243 E and F, is there something that appears to be depicted as a cut piece of cloth in those photographs? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And there's the standard little ruler that we're talking about that you previously described. But also written on the cloth, is there some handwriting that you recognize? KYO: That’s correct. I have taken this photograph. I recognize this by my initials and item number and the case number on the item that I had taken out. HARRIS: And that's a photograph of the cutting you made of the duvet cover? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: All right. And these photographs, do they accurately depict the items that you examined? KYO: They do. HARRIS: Starting with 243 -- do you need to see them? GERAGOS: I saw them. HARRIS: Starting with 243 A, if you can describe for us what that is. KYO: It's a duvet cover. It's a -- I call it side A and side B. This is a side B of the duvet cover. HARRIS: Let me stop you there for a second. When you're talking about a duvet cover, this is -- I don't -- maybe this isn't too technical; that is the outside of something of a comforter? KYO: Comforter cover. HARRIS: Comforter cover or duvet cover? KYO: Right. HARRIS: Some people just call it a comforter cover? KYO: Right. HARRIS: And when you're looking at this, can you tell which is the top or bottom or how you stick the comforter inside of it? KYO: I hang this comforter, the opening where -- where you see buttons and where you can slide the comforter in is on this end over here where I hang. HARRIS: So, the top of the photograph – KYO: That would be -- that would be -- if you were to put on the bed, that would be the bottom end. And this part would be -- when you put on the bed, it will be on the -- the headboard part. HARRIS: So when we're talking about this 243 A, this comforter, the open side or the button side is at the top of that photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And you were saying that there was a side A or an A and a B side? KYO: If you look at it, is a duvet cover is a flat -- two flat sheet keep it together. And this would be side B and the other side would be side A. That's how I designate that. HARRIS: And this side that we're looking at here would be which side? KYO: This would be side B. HARRIS: And on this particular -- on side B, photographed in 243 A, there appears to be some little squares up there. What do those represent? KYO: I put a Post-it note on the duvet cover, showing the location of the reddish brown stains that I observed on the side B. HARRIS: Back up for a second. You observed reddish brown stains on the comforter? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Did you -- it's kind of hard to tell on this photograph projected, but did you use the same color Post-it note? Or different colored Post-it notes? KYO: I put different color Post-it note on there so when I take a closeup photograph you can tell, you know, this is a green color, then that would be -- on the overall picture, that came from this location. And there's a -- that's -- this would be like purple Post-it note, and this would be red colored Post-it note, so you know where the stains are coming from. HARRIS: So that we're clear, because it's tough to see from there, the purple would be the square that's towards the upper center of this photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And the red square would be to the right, lower right portion of the comforter? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then the two -- they're green over to the left corner of the photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Let's look at the close-ups. Starting with 243 B. A little bit easier to see the color there. Can you describe for us what this is? KYO: This is a reddish brown stains that I found on the duvet cover, which I located as a purple Post-it note. HARRIS: 243 C? KYO: Again, this is another reddish brown stains on the duvet cover, which I noted as a red -- reddish color, orange color Post-it note. HARRIS: 243 D? KYO: There are two reddish brown stains, which I noted as a -- with a green Post-it notes. HARRIS: Now, you've told us before when you find these particular stains that you were doing that presumptive test. Did you go through the same process with these four particular stains on the duvet cover? KYO: I did. And the results were positive for presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: So item number 57 on the B side, as you described it, there were these four stains that test positive for blood? KYO: For presumptive test for blood, that's correct. HARRIS: Now, you say presumptive test. Is -- in the forensic or criminalist's point of view, do you guys stop there when you have this presumptive test? KYO: No. We generally either do a confirmatory testing to make sure -- making sure that's a human blood, or -- I'm sorry, and/or go on with the DNA testing when cases where you have limited sample, a small size samples. HARRIS: When you say testing to see if it's human blood, you can find blood that would test positive presumptively with this test that it might not be human blood? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So this confirmatory test that you do sometimes, is that also referred to as a species test? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And that will tell you if it's human or some other species? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, with regards to these four particular samples that we've seen in the 243 series of photographs, did you take cuttings, as you were describing for us, to send those off for testing? KYO: I take cuttings of all four stains as depicted by my photographs. And... HARRIS: Let me put up 243 E. KYO: And this particular piece of cloth, material, is which I cut out where I -- on the photograph I put two green stickers, a Post-it mark. HARRIS: And then does this appear to be the back side of the same cutting, 243 F? KYO: That's the back view of the cutting where you can see there's the two stains. HARRIS: Now, looking at this particular item here, we see that same ruler with another analyst's initials down there, BRH. Who does that stand for? KYO: That would be Bill Hudlow, one of our senior criminalists who is qualified to do DNA analysis, and – HARRIS: And this particular item, these cuttings, were they sent to Mr. Hudlow for him to do DNA testing? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: I don't know where the court wants to take a break. JUDGE: This would probably be a good time. All right. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we'll take a recess until five after 3:00. Remember the admonition I've heretofore given you. JUDGE: All right. Let the record show the defendant is present with counsel. The jury is in the jury box and along with the alternates. Mr. Harris, you may proceed. HARRIS: Thank you. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, I want to go back to the blue tarp. Looking at 240A. And you talked to us about doing the same type of presumptive tests that you were describing for us on the comforter. And you did the same type of presumptive tests which were negative on the tarp. That you said one of the swabbings came up green. Just want to go back to that real quick. When it comes up green like that, does it mean anything with regard to that test? Or is it just part of the stain? KYO: It's a same. When I swab it, the stain look like a gray stain. When I swab it, when it transfer on to white cotton swab, it appear to be green. That's what I mean by green color. The swab is colored, but not the testing. HARRIS: All right. When you do swabbing, just so we go through this process, we have heard some about it before in terms of what the Department of Justice does. When you are doing a swabbing, do you start with something like a sterile Q-Tip, or cotton type swab? KYO: That’s correct. We use a sterile cotton swab, just like the one you will see for cleaning your ears. And it's a sterilized. And you put a drop of water just to transfer the stain on to the swab. And I just lightly touch it just to make sure that there is some transfer on to the white swab. So when I look at that after the transfer, it -- even though on the blue tarp it looks like gray color, on the cotton swab, on the white background, it appeared to be a green color stain. HARRIS: You believe that was a grass stain? KYO: That's what I think. That's a grass stain. HARRIS: Now, the measurement of this tarp, it's kind of hard to see from here because there is no scale. Did you measure this tarp? KYO: I did. And it is approximately 68 inch by 91 inch. HARRIS: Moving forward again. You told us about sending the cuttings from the duvet cover to Mr. Hudlow for testing. Did you also receive some swabs that -- like we were just talking about from the Modesto Police Department in terms of what they had taken in terms of these type of presumptive swabs? Let me try that again. KYO: Can you repeat? GERAGOS: Objection, vague. JUDGE: Could be a little more specific? DISTASO: First let me have some photographs marked. JUDGE: 244. How many are you marking? HARRIS: Four. JUDGE: A through D. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, let me show you what's marked 244A through E, or D, excuse me. See if you recognize what's depicted in these photographs. KYO: I recognize it as photographs that I had taken of items submitted by Modesto PD. And one of the swabs I don't recognize. JUDGE: What number is that? KYO: That would be 244D? JUDGE: D? KYO: D as in dog. Taken by somebody else. HARRIS: And that particular photograph, does it have one of those scales in it with Mr. Hudlow's information, and an item number of 1-D? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Looking at the photographs that you took, starting with 244A, is there a sample 1-D in that particular photograph? KYO: Yes. Actually there is another photograph which I didn't take, which is 244C. HARRIS: Again, is that -- does that have that ruler at the bottom with Mr. Hudlow's information? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Does it have an item number of 1-A? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And is there, in the photograph, an envelope with item number of 1-A, photographs that you took? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: All right. Just to go through this. So the Modesto Police Department, besides those items that we have been talking about, also submitted to you some other items. We'll put it up here. 244A. Do you recognize these items? KYO: I recognize these items as the -- this photograph is taken by me. And I recognize it by my initials and case number. HARRIS: From looking at this, this would blood samples that were collected by Detective Hendee. And it has labels up there of standard control samples off door, steering wheel, et cetera, et cetera. Did you look at these items and then package them up for Mr. Hudlow? Showing you 244B. KYO: That’s correct. After I examine it, I package it and hand it over to Bill Hudlow. HARRIS: And did you do presumptive tests on these particular items? KYO: That’s correct. Before I handed over and repackaged it, I did the presumptive test for blood on all these swabs. Except -- I'm sorry -- on the swab labeled as blood sample. GERAGOS: Which? HARRIS: Which one? KYO: That would be 1-B, 1-C, 1-D, 1-E and 1-F. HARRIS: So you did 1-B, 1-C, 1-D, 1-E, and 1-F. B, C, D, E, F? KYO: That’s correct. The other items are controls, so I didn't examine them. HARRIS: That would be 1-A was one of the controls? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Looking at this photograph 244D, does this appear to be a photograph of one of those swabs and was labeled 1-D, one of the swabs that you looked at? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: When you did the presumptive analysis of this, did you receive any results? KYO: When I did the presumptive test, 1-B, 1-C, 1-D, and 1-E tested positive for presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: And, again, these items, as part of the process at Ripon, they were submitted over to for DNA analysis by Mr. Hudlow? KYO: Could you repeat that? HARRIS: These -- the items that you received the presumptive positive tests for, were they submitted over to DNA analysis by Mr. Hudlow? KYO: That’s correct. JUDGE: What were the numbers again, 1-B – KYO: 1-C, 1-D, and 1-E. JUDGE: And 1-E. B, C, D, and E. Okay. HARRIS: That would be item 1-B, 1-C, 1-D, and 1-E? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: That's the Modesto PD's numbers. We saw those depicted in the envelopes up there? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, as part of the process to DNA, did the Modesto Police Department provide you with a blood sample from the defendant? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And did that come in some type of packaging and tubes that you could see that the blood was in it? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: When you received that, did you do anything with it? KYO: I preserved the blood in a bloodstain card so they could be used later on for analysis, like DNA analysis. HARRIS: Let me go ahead and have marked as next a series of photographs. JUDGE: You didn't identify C. GERAGOS: She said she didn't recognize C or D. JUDGE: C or D. GERAGOS: C and D. JUDGE: Only thought she said C. D also. GERAGOS: She said that, and corrected herself and said C as well. JUDGE: I missed that. Okay. This would be 245. How many have you got there? HARRIS: Five. JUDGE: A through E. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, let me show you what's been marked as 245A through E, see if you recognize what's depicted in these photographs. KYO: I recognize these photographs of the blood from the blood sample one of blood of Scott Peterson and the bloodstain card I made from these blood sample. HARRIS: Let me go through this. Starting with 245A, can you describe for us what we're looking at in this particular photograph? KYO: When I received a blood sample, it come in a blood envelope, blood sample envelope. And it contain a biohazard plastic bag that's sealed. And it contain two vial of blood. And I documented it as – JUDGE: Whose blood was that, Mr. Peterson's? KYO: Scott Peterson. HARRIS: Showing you 245B. This is a closeup of the two vials in that package? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then 245C, a closeup. Can you read the writing on it? KYO: Correct. HARRIS: Do you recognize the writing on these vials? KYO: I recognize my initial on the day that I examined, or make the bloodstain cards from the blood vial, and case number, and the item number over here. HARRIS: That would be 18-A on the photographs? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Looking at 245D. Is this another close-up of both of those vials? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And looking at 245E. What do we see in this particular photograph? KYO: This is a photograph taken by Bill Hudlow. I recognize the bloodstain card by the initial over here, and the date that I make the bloodstain card and item number and the case number. HARRIS: Looking at this photograph, there appears to be two cards up there with the defendant's name on there, number -- item number and your initials? KYO: That’s correct. There is a two different type of blood vial. Preservative in it. One had contained the EDTA, and the other is ACD. EDTA is the one we generally use for DNA analysis. JUDGE: Can you flash D up there again? Can you flash D up there again? There is a date on there. What's 10-24-72 mean? GERAGOS: His birthday. JUDGE: Okay. You cleared that up. Thank you, Mr. Geragos. GERAGOS: I'm testifying, Judge. DISTASO: We'll accept that stipulation, Judge. JUDGE: All right. HARRIS: Going back to 245E. You are saying there is an EDTA and the ACD. We saw on the photographs of the vials, there is a yellow top and a purple top? KYO: That’s correct. The purple top contained preservative. EDTA and that's good for preserving the DNA. And the other card is ACD containing preservative which is a yellow top. When you receive these, they are in package with the two blood vials in it. HARRIS: It comes in this, those blood vials, how do you actually go about making these cards? KYO: Actually I label identifier on the blood vial with my initials, and then I label the bloodstain card with my initials and information on it. And then I put the bloodstain cards in the biohazard hood, and I use a dropper, like an eye dropper. I suck up some of blood and dribble over the bloodstain card and let it dry, and then I package it after it dry. HARRIS: So you prepared that particular card. And then it ultimately goes to Mr. Hudlow for him to do the DNA comparisons? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: You also received some items from the Modesto Police Department that were possible bloodstains from the house. And that was a series of items number 24, from the warehouse, series of items in the 100 series, and from the Land Rover, and the series of 401. Do you have any results from those items? KYO: I found all those swabs of blood, possible blood sample swabs to be negative presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: Now, the Modesto Police Department asked you to look at some other items. And I want to move to your case, or your Request Number 4. KYO: Okay. HARRIS: And have you had a chance to find that at this point in time? KYO: Got it. HARRIS: And when you received these -- let me just back up for a second. When you told us about how this process works, the Modesto Police Department brings in some items, you document in your reports the items that you received and the date they come into your laboratory? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So talking about this particular report under Request Number 4, did you receive the number of items on January 22nd of 2003? KYO: Yes. We received Oral B toothbrush on 25-A and 25-B; black and blue brush, 26-A. B-r-o -- I don't know. It's brown brush, 26-B. HARRIS: Let me stop you there for a second. You are going down a list that's on the first page of your report? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So as part of the process of documenting what's there, these items come in, you look at the packaging and decide if you are going to examine it as part of the request that you receive from the police department? KYO: Generally to let the agency know that we received them, when we received them, even though we don't examine it, we put it in the note so that we have a record of it in the reports. So, in this case, these the items that we received, so I documented as such, but I didn't examine them, because that's -- I didn't examine them, because it wasn't -- I couldn't do all these examinations. HARRIS: Now, this particular report, Request Number 4, were you specifically being asked to look at a vacuum cleaner? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And this vacuum cleaner, was it a Dirt Devil that had been taken from the defendant's house? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: If I could have marked next a series of photographs. It would be four photographs -- actually five photographs. JUDGE: Okay. 246A through E. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, let me give you 246A through E, see if you recognize these. KYO: I recognize these as a series of photograph I have taken of the line vacuum cleaner and the vacuum bag, and the debris inside the vacuum bag. HARRIS: These photographs, do they accurately depict what's shown in the photographs? KYO: They do. HARRIS: Starting with 246A. Can you describe for us what this item is? KYO: This is when I removed the cover to look to take out the vacuum bag. HARRIS: And 246B. KYO: This is the other side of the vacuum bag where the debris will come into this hole over here. HARRIS: Would this particular vacuum that you are describing there, you were pointing out where the debris comes in, it's sucked up through the machine, and then it's kept in this bag? KYO: That's right. This is where the debris will come through into the bag. And this particular hole will fit directly on to this area. HARRIS: Looking at 246C. What to we see in this particular photograph? KYO: I cut away the top part of the vacuum bag, peeling away. I saw a series of clumps directly across from the -- where the debris will come in. And I labeled them as the 271, 272, 273. And I examined all those debris, and I take a photograph of them. And also I combed throughout the rest of the other debris that is in the vacuum. HARRIS: In 246D, does this appear to be pretty close to the same photograph as the last photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Moving to 246E. Let's talk about that particular item. KYO: This is debris that directly across from where the debris will come in the hole of the vacuum bag. And I just teased them away. I try to do a general evidence processing, documenting what I observe. And I observed dirt, debris, fibers, a piece of blue plastic. And – HARRIS: Let me stop there, talk about this for a second. When -- you were talking about how you were picking through the debris. So you open up this bag. And we saw in the previous photograph how there is these layers. It's more compacted at the bottom. As you get towards the top of the opening, it's more loose. I want to say fluffy, but kind of looks that way at the top? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And you were saying you are doing a general evidence processing. Do you start at the top to see what the last items were that went into the vacuum cleaner? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: You start picking through that. We see in the photograph in the upper, right there is a pair of tweezers? KYO: These are the tweezers that I use to tease out all the item. HARRIS: You were describing for us with the photograph that you separated these into the very top, into a 1, 2, and 3? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And these were from item number 27 with the Modesto Police Department number? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, this photograph that we are looking at here 246E, this has written in the lower right the number of 27 dash 2? KYO: This one over here. That's the pile of debris from vacuum bag I label earlier. That's where these debris come from. Divide this photograph. HARRIS: You said that you are going to go through this tweezing out these things. What was it that you found as you go through? KYO: I found Christmas tree debris, pine needles, dry grass cutting material, feather, pieces of feathers, fibers, plastic, blue -- in this particular photo, blue-colored plastic piece. Onion skins. So general debris. HARRIS: Now, pointing out something to us, that little blue piece of plastic. Could you tell or describe for us what type of plastic that was this? KYO: It's a thin piece of plastic. It's measure approximately one centimeter by three centimeter. Very small. And it looked like to me possibly from the grocery bag kind of material. Very thin and crunchy. HARRIS: When you saying thin and crunchy, you are holding your index finger and thumb, kind of squeezing them together? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: You are pinching between your fingers, it would have some kind of sound to it? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, you pick through this -- looking at again at 246E. Do you separate these items out and try and look at them in terms of age? Or can you to that? KYO: I try to look at the most recent, the last piece of debris that comes through, which would be directly across from where the incoming hole is. So that would be 27-2. And then there are other clumps of debris in the vacuum bag also on top -- I mean behind it, but close also. So I look at them also. But I look at it in separate pile as they come out of it. HARRIS: Again, this photograph represents the most recent stuff that would be -- or the last items going into that vacuum cleaner bag? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Moving on again to your Request Number 8. Did you receive some items from the Modesto Police Department as part of Request Number 8 for you to examine? JUDGE: What date? HARRIS: Many different dates on here. HARRIS: You received certain particular items on February 21st, 2003? KYO: I received several items on February 21st, 2003. And I examined a brown paper bag containing clothing articles, a shirt, pajama tops and bottoms, blue underwear, four socks, and another item, 218 dash 45 – HARRIS: Tell you what. Just to help along with this, to identify them, I'll have marked next in order two photographs. JUDGE: 247. KYO: The first item, list of clothing articles. JUDGE: Hold on, Miss Kyo, there is not a question pending. JUDGE: 247A, B. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, let me show you 247A and B, and ask you if you recognize what depicted in those photographs? KYO: I recognize photograph that the one I had taken of item 218-45 and 218-31. HARRIS: And the items depicted in these photographs, do these photographs accurately depict the items that you observed in the photographs? KYO: They do. HARRIS: 247A. You are saying that you received certain items. If you could go through and describe for us what it is. KYO: I received a purse, a green and blue weave purse, and contained a jacket and a novel. And I am referring to my notes. Again, I examined for -- I take them out, take out the items. And I photographed it, and I examined each item. In the purse lining I observed off-white watery stains inside. And I tested it for blood. And it tested negative for blood. And I also observed inside the purse plant -- grass debris. I did not collect -- I did not collect them. And I examined the jacket. I observed a small reddish-brown stain in the front close to the zipper area. And it tested negative for blood also. And I also observed fibers, plant dirt debris on the shirt. And I did not collect them. And I examined the novel book that's inside the -- come from the purse. And I found a card, but no bloodstains observed on the book. So I didn't test any stains on the book. HARRIS: And with these particular items there was a second bag. Go ahead and put that photograph up 247B. Did you examine these items as well? KYO: Yes, I did. Starting with the shirt. I observed some stains also closer to the front chest area. And they tested negative for -- presumptive test for blood. And I examined a pair of pajama tops and bottom. And I observe some stains on the pocket, on the front clothes area over in the -- close to the upper thigh area. I tested them with LMG. And they also all tested negative for presumptive test for blood. And I did not find any LMG. I did not find any blood-like stains on the underwear. And so I didn't test for bloodstains on the underwear. And I tested the Polo socks, and two of the four, two has a small reddish-brown stain that tested positive for presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: Go through this. You are saying -- looking at the bottom of that particular photograph, 247B, there are four Polo socks, kind of white athletic socks that have a – bear something that says "Polo Sport" toward the top? KYO: Correct. HARRIS: They appear to be tied or bundled together. And the agency number for those particular items were? KYO: 218 dash 31 as a whole. And I labeled that as 218 dash 31D. HARRIS: You indicated there were two of those socks that had some kind of stains on them? KYO: Correct. HARRIS: And you indicated that you used that LMG test on them? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And that was presumptive positive? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Did you run a species test on those particular items? KYO: On a later date I did species test on those stains, and it does not test as human. And I also further tested to see if there is a dog, cat, cow, a pig. I think that's also -- let me check my note. Hold on a second. Referring to my note, on Request Number 37 – GERAGOS: Could I just approach for seeking -- look over her shoulder? JUDGE: Yes, go ahead. HARRIS: That would be Bates stamp 38519? GERAGOS: That's correct. KYO: I also further tested that this possibly, dog, cat, cow, or pig, or horse. And they do not respond to all those species either. HARRIS: So these socks, there is a presumptive test for blood. But when you do the species test, it's negative for human, for dog, cat, cow, pig and horse? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Going to move on. In your Request Number 15, at some point in time did the Department of Justice receive information that the Contra Costa crime lab had evidence, or had items that they were going to be shipping to you? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And so you received these particular items from Contra Costa? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And as part of, again, the generalized process, that when you went through -- when you received these items from Contra Costa, did you document the items, photograph them, and do your examination? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: If I can have marked next – JUDGE: 248. HARRIS: 17 photographs. JUDGE: All right, A through Q. HARRIS: Miss Kyo, let me present to you 248A through Q, see if you recognize these. KYO: I recognize these photographs as the ones I took of the items submitted by Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department. HARRIS: And the photographs, do they accurately depict the evidence items that were sent to you by Contra Costa County? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: I'm going to start with 248A. If you can describe for us what's in this photograph. KYO: This is a photograph of large cardboard box containing four cardboard box. These cardboard box contain victim's bra, panties, maternity pants, and fabric mass from the right leg. HARRIS: The items that -- when you received them, were they -- we can see red tape on the boxes that have the evidence items in there. Were they in the sealed condition when you received them? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: We can see some writing. It's not very clear. But is that kind of like a chain-of-custody log from Contra Costa County? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, you are saying they include the victim's clothing. Showing you 248B. Is this the bra that was recovered? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, we can see some staining around here in the top of the photograph. What is that? KYO: That's the original white butcher paper that packaged by the Contra Costa County. And those -- the stain made from the debris from the bra. Most likely the fat decomposed tissues. HARRIS: 248C. KYO: This is the photograph of the victim bra. That's the way I found it when I unpackaged the butcher paper. It's folded. And you can see these little globs of decomposed tissues. HARRIS: Going next to 246D. KYO: This is victim panties. This is the way I found it when I unpackaged it. HARRIS: 248E. KYO: When I untangled victim's panties, this is what I observed. This is the waistline here. This is where the legs will go through. And here is the crotch part of the panties. And there is a cutting here, most likely done by the -- at the autopsy. HARRIS: Going to 248F. KYO: This is a photograph of the right -- let me see. This is a photograph of the maternity pants. HARRIS: 248G? KYO: This is the other side of the maternity pants, when I flipped over this mass of material. And you can see the maker of the pants of The Motherhood. HARRIS: 248H? KYO: This is when I untangled the mass. And you can see the front zipper here, part of the legs here. And this is a waistline. And this appear to be -- there is a cut over to right side of the pant, and the right leg is part of the mass missing. HARRIS: Now, at the bottom, again, we see the ruler that you have been discussing throughout your testimony, how you use to document the photographs. KYO: That’s correct. This I labeled as 1 dash 1, item number, and the case number, the date I examined this item, and my initial. HARRIS: Now, this particular item, it had the number from Contra Costa already assigned, 1 dash 3? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And 248I. KYO: This is when I opened up the victim's pants. You can see the front zipper here and waistline go all the way from here to here. HARRIS: 248J. KYO: This is the close-up of the victim pants. And from inside front area you can see the zipper, the front zipper here. HARRIS: 248K? KYO: This is another view of the victim pants. HARRIS: And looking at this particular photograph, are we looking kind of face-on towards the zipper here in the center? You are using the laser pointer to point that out right now? KYO: Could you repeat that? HARRIS: Let me just try to do this, not have dueling lasers. But we are looking at the front of the pants right here. This would be the zipper portion? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And towards the top of that, at the front part of the pants, there is a button or snap of some kind? KYO: That’s correct. That's a button. HARRIS: And if you were to follow the waistband around, you come to the back of the pants, which is visible where the label is at the top center portion of this photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And we're looking at -- to the left of the photograph would be the right leg; right of the photograph would be the left leg as it extends down to the bottom? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: 248L. KYO: This is a photograph of the victim pants looking down the left leg. HARRIS: 248M. KYO: That's a photograph of the close-up of the very end of the left leg. HARRIS: 248N? KYO: This is a Contra Costa County item number 1 dash4. It's a cutting from the right leg. And you can see a string of sorts coming down. And this is a piece of fiber with globs of possibly decomposed tissues and marine plants materials, as well as barnacles were observed. HARRIS: 248O. Is this a close-up of that mass? KYO: That’s correct. That's a close-up of the mass that we were looking at. HARRIS: 248P. KYO: That's when I untangle the mass, and this is a piece of string that pull out. And this possibly is the right leg. This is probably top of the thigh and going down the leg. HARRIS: And 248Q? KYO: Another view of the pants. This is the top of the thigh, and then going down the leg. JUDGE: I think we'll stop there. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we'll take the evening recess. Remember the admonition. You are not to discuss this case among yourselves or with any other person, or form or express any opinion about this case. You are not listen to, read, or watch any media reports of this trial, nor discuss it with any representative of the media, or their agent. We'll reconvene tomorrow morning at nine. We'll pick up with Miss Kyo with further testimony. Have a nice evening.
September 14, 2004 JUDGE: Okay. Mr. Harris, do you remember where you left off with Ms. Kyo? HARRIS: Yes. JUDGE: Okay. Go ahead. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, yesterday we were talking -- we were going through and looking at the photographs of the items that you received from Mr. Nelson at the Contra Costa crime lab. I want to go back to those particular items. We were looking at the photographs of the clothing that was recovered from Laci's body, and I want to talked about the trace evidence examination that you did of that particular clothing. Can you describe for the jury what it was that you found on the clothing. KYO: On the victim's bras I found that there was fatty tissues, decomposed tissues inside the cup of the bra, and also like white tissue deposit on the outside, the edge on it. HARRIS: What general -- I mean we can see from the photographs, but from your examination as you were trying to untangle them, what was the general state of the clothing? KYO: The bra is in good shape. So it is all intact and there's no rip or tear, but there's a cut done by the autopsy -- at the autopsy. HARRIS: Is it kind of a standard practice at the autopsy for the pathologist to cut off the clothing from the victims? KYO: To get it out of -- from the body, that's correct. HARRIS: And the -- we saw on this clothing that there seemed to be other things besides this -- the fatty tissue, the decomposition tissue that you were talking about. You were describing in some of the photographs there was something like sea life. Did you examine what this was, the sea life? KYO: It's like barnacles you will see on ships. It just grow on whatever that is in the water. It's -- it's found on victim's pants. JUDGE: Barnacles on the victim's pants? KYO: Pants. HARRIS: Now, when you say they were barnacles, did you count them? Or can you give us a range how many there were? KYO: There were quite a lot. I didn't really count them. I just photographed it. HARRIS: So that's – KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And besides the -- the general examination that you looked at and photographed, document like you've been going through yesterday, do you also test these items of clothes for any type of chemical evidence or biological evidence? KYO: On the victim pants there's some stain, almost like a pinkish stain color on the front zipper area, so I try to test it using the LMG, which is a presumptive test for blood. And they are negative on presumptive test for blood. HARRIS: So, again, even though there were staining on an item, chemical tests indicate it was negative for the presence of blood? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: One of the other items that you received from Mr. Nelson in Contra Costa, was that the duct tape that was removed from the pants at the autopsy? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: If I can have marked a series of photographs next in order. JUDGE: Okay. This will be number 250. People's 250. How many photographs have you got there, Mr. Harris? HARRIS: I'm trying to count them. Fourteen photographs. JUDGE: Okay. That will be A through N. [People's 250 A-N sealed as part of the autopsy photos] HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, I can present to you what's been marked as People's 250 A through N, have you look at these photographs, see if you recognize what's depicted in them. KYO: I recognize these as the series of photograph I have taken of the item 1 dash 5, duct tape collected from the victim body. HARRIS: And these items, does this depict different views of the duct tape removed from Ms. Peterson's body and packaging that you received from Contra Costa County? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And what's depicted in the photographs, is it accurately depicted by the photographs? KYO: It does. HARRIS: Starting with 250 A, can you describe for us what this is? KYO: This is a container that piece of duct tape that is submitted to us for examination. And this is a back part of it where he says will be the other side. And you can see some of the barnacles adhere on to it. And this is the ruler that I placed on to the photograph. HARRIS: Okay. You talk about being on the other side. Show you 250 B. Is this basically the same photograph but the duct tape has been turned over to show the adhesive side? KYO: That’s correct. This is the same item on the other side of the duct tape. HARRIS: And then did you take a series of close up photographs of the tape? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: All right. Showing you 250 C, does this show us the close-up of the adhesive side to the left side of the duct tape as it was in the previous photograph, 250 B? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And what are -- what are these kind of round things that we see on the duct tape here? KYO: These are the barnacles that is adhere and growing on the duct tape. HARRIS: Moving to 250 D, is this just moving from the left to the right on this particular piece of duct tape? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And this is more towards the center of the duct tape at this point in time? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And again, do we see those same kind of round structures? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And those are those barnacles that you were describing? KYO: That’s correct. And also in this photograph I noted that there are a mass of tangle -- tangled mass of fibers and tissues here. HARRIS: Going to 250 E, can you see what you were just pointing out to the left on the tape in this photograph? KYO: That's the same tangle mass of fibers and tissues from previous photograph, and then that's moving to the right of the duct tape. HARRIS: Now, in this particular photograph, we see that there -- they appear to be strings or threads, some kind of grid pattern. What is it that's depicted in that photograph? KYO: Duct tape is made of backing, which is this gray color of material, and these gauze-looking materials called scrim. And the fibers going along the length is called yarn threads. And going – GERAGOS: I'm sorry, called? KYO: Yarn, Y-A-R-N. Let me give you correct definition, as a wrap yarn, that W-R-A-P, yarn, Y-A-R-N. GERAGOS: Thank you. KYO: That's go parallel to the length of the duct tape. And fill yarns are the one that going the width of the duct tape. HARRIS: Going to the next photograph, 250 F, does this move all the way to the right end of that piece of duct tape with the adhesive side -- adhesive side exposed? KYO: This is the very right end of the duct tape. And I found there are tissue adhere to the duct tape, and also a corner of the duct tape is being fold over. HARRIS: There's a few more photographs of that side. Looking at 250 G, is that basically the same photograph, now with a scale there? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: This scale, it appears to be that it's a millimeter scale? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: And the width of the tape is approximately five millimeters? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Showing you more close up, 250 H, is this depicting that tissue that you were describing adhered to the duct tape? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: 250 I, is that the -- an even more close-up view? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then you -- did you turn the duct tape over and repeat the process? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: All right. Looking at 250 J, is this the backing side that's not -- so we don't see the adhesive side of the duct tape at this time? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And moving along the length of the duct tape, again, 250 K, is this more towards the middle? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: 250 L? KYO: Another backing of the duct tape. HARRIS: And looking at this, do we see even on the -- so this would be -- in non-technical terms, this would be the shiny side of the duct tape? KYO: That's right. The non-adhesive part of the duct tape. HARRIS: And do we see barnacles on this non-adhesive side of the duct tape as well? KYO: Yes. These are the barnacles growing on the duct tape. HARRIS: 250 M, straightened it a little bit? KYO: That would be the other end of the duct tape, on the shiny side. HARRIS: And to the far right of the photograph, far right of the duct tape, as well in the upper corner, is that a large barnacle, would you say? KYO: That's -- that's a barnacle over here also. HARRIS: And 250 N, is this a closeup of the shiny side of the folded corner edge, with the scale? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Now, you were telling us about these -- the different threads that the -- the weave, the gauze, as you described it, on the backing of the duct tape. You were describing the different components of duct tape. Is there a way that, when you look at duct tape and you kind of figure out what width it is, the -- and the thread count, that you can make comparisons to other pieces of duct tape? KYO: Yes. Duct tape, depending on the manufacturer, they have different type of backing, different type of adhesive, different type of the scrim or the threads make -- looking material. So when I look at this piece of duct tape, I counted how many, like, length-wise there was wrap yarn and along the width of the duct tape. And for this particular duct tape I counted there are 38 threads across the width. HARRIS: Now, as part of the package of -- or the number of packages that you received from Contra Costa, did you also receive one that had kind of a big plastic bag with a TARGET logo on it? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And did it also have some duct tape associated with it? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: If I can have two photographs marked next in order. JUDGE: You want them separate or – HARRIS: They can be together. JUDGE: All right. This will be 2 -- 251 A and B. HARRIS: Showing you 251 A and B, ask if you recognize what's depicted in those photographs. KYO: I recognize these as a photograph I've taken of item number 1 dash 11. GERAGOS: 1 dash? KYO: 11. HARRIS: And what's depicted in these photographs, these are accurate representations of the item that you observed when you did the analysis? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Showing you 251 A, so we know what we're talking about, this is the TARGET bag that we're referring to? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And in the back of the bag, do we see the box that it came out of? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: To the bottom left portion, going towards the middle of the photograph, do we see some of the duct tape that was associated with the bag? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And then showing you 251 B, is this a photograph of some of the duct tape? KYO: Let me -- let me back up a little bit. The TARGET item is the item 1 dash 10. And this one here is item 1 dash 11. That's another series of duct tape that is submitted. So there are two different items. HARRIS: Just so we go back through that. In the previous photograph, 251 A, we see the TARGET bag that has duct tape with it? KYO: Right. HARRIS: Did you also see other duct tape that was, according to documentation, with that bag, but it was packaged separately? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And that particular -- what we're looking at in the photograph here, 251 B, that was given the number of 1 dash 11? KYO: That's right. They come in separate packaging. HARRIS: So the TARGET bag and the duct tape that was still stuck to the TARGET bag, that's 1 dash 10? KYO: 10, that's correct. HARRIS: When -- when you received the TARGET bag, did you make kind of -- any observations like you were describing for us yesterday what you do, generalized description, smell or anything like that? KYO: I didn't really make a notation at the beginning of the smell for the bag, but I was given a second examination with this articles and I noticed that there's no -- while I didn't smell any rotting tissue smells, it just smell like normal item that come out of the oceans. HARRIS: Now, when you -- did you look at this duct tape as well? KYO: I also take a look at these items of duct tape, item 1 dash 11. HARRIS: And also the duct tape on 1 dash 10? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Did you find any barnacles on the duct tape on 1 dash 10 or 1 dash 11? KYO: No, I didn't see any barnacle growing on these duct tape. HARRIS: Did you find any of that tissue or fat or decomposition type of material on either the bag in 1 dash 10, or the duct tape associated with 1 dash 10 or 1 dash 11? KYO: No, I didn't find them. HARRIS: Did you also look at the thread counts at all? KYO: Yes, I did. I look at the yarn count, and on item 1 dash 10, the duct tape has a thread count of 44. HARRIS: And that's different than what was on the victim's body? KYO: That’s correct. On the victim body the thread count was 38. HARRIS: Did you also look at 1 dash 11? KYO: Yes, I did. Item one dash 11 contained three pieces of duct tape, and this is one of the piece of duct tape. I also did the thread counts on those. And they vary from -- the item 1 dash 11 thread count vary from 40 and 42. Two of them counted at 42 and one of them at 40. But on item 40, some of the threads on the edges are missing. I didn't count them. The one on the duct tape has 40. HARRIS: So the items in 1 dash 10 and 1 dash 11, the duct tape items from those two items did not match the thread counts from the duct tape associated with the victim's body? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, on the -- in your examination of looking at the duct tape that was on the victim's body, did you notice that there was any type of -- besides the barnacles, fatty tissue and decomposition material that you described -- any other trace type of evidence? KYO: Can you repeat which item we talking about? HARRIS: On the victim's item -- I believe it's 1 dash 5? KYO: Okay. When I was taking a look at the duct tape on the victim, I look for the hairs that adhere to the duct tape. I found some hairs and fibers, collected it and hand it over to Rod Oswalt, one of the criminalists at our laboratory. HARRIS: So whatever trace evidence you found on the 1 dash 5, that was the tape from the victim's body, that was given to Mr. Oswalt? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Now, did you -- at some point in time did you look at these particular items, specifically the TARGET bag, or the -- the items associated, clothing items associated with the victim's body, to see if there was any generalized smell with it? KYO: Yes. I was asked to see whether there's -- on the TARGET bag, whether I smell rotting tissues. HARRIS: And did you? KYO: And I didn't smell any such smell. HARRIS: Did you -- was there a smell associated with the victim's clothing? KYO: Yes. I smell tissue, decomposing tissue smells on the victim clothing. And also the duct tape. HARRIS: Now, as also part of request number 15, did you receive a -- a blouse to look at as well? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: If I can have marked next in order. JUDGE: 252. HARRIS: Starting -- if I can show you that particular photograph, 252, do you recognize what's depicted in that? KYO: Yes, I recognize it as a photograph I have taken of item 218 dash 40, a black and tan maternity blouse. HARRIS: And you indicated you took this photograph? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And does this photograph accurately depict that blouse, 218 dash 40? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: What type of examination did you conduct on this particular blouse? KYO: I just generally screened, take a look at for bloodstain, any bloodstain, any tears, and also looking for fibers and trace evidence. HARRIS: And when you went -- so kind of the same generalized process that you've gone through that you have described for us in these other items? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: What did you find during your examination of this item? KYO: It has a -- a smell. I call it perfume smell, but it's probably like linen spray, or something like that. It could be that, too. I smell that on this particular piece of clothing article. And there's no tears or bloodstains observed on the clothing article. And I look for fibers inside the blouse here on the bottom edge area, and I found very fine pieces of clear fibers, blue fiber, green fibers, off-white fibers, so that's where I documented it. And also some light brown hair, possibly an animal hair. So I observed that. HARRIS: And, again, as part of the process as you observe these things, do you collect them and preserve them for someone to do some comparisons? KYO: For item 218 dash 40, let me refer to my report. GERAGOS: Can I ask what page you're looking at? JUDGE: Ms. Kyo, do you have a Bates stamp number? The Bates stamp number for Mr. Geragos? HARRIS: 26065. The first page of the report. KYO: I'm looking at report page five. HARRIS: And that would be 26069. KYO: In this particular -- in this particular case, it doesn't -- I didn't -- I observed them, I collected it, but I return the -- whatever I collected with the evidence. I did not say that, but it's with the evidence, if you want to take a look at it in the later time. HARRIS: Going to page 101 of your notes. KYO: Correct, okay. HARRIS: Did you -- when you were talking about collecting it, did you also document it by photographing under a stereoscope those particular fibers or possible hairs? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: And were you also provided with carpet samples going -- starting at 102 of your -- your report? KYO: Correct. I was given the carpet sample from the house, victim's house. And I compared the fibers and see whether is possibly come from the carpet fibers. HARRIS: And your results were? KYO: Most likely no, because of the color, the kind of threads that I found on the clothing. HARRIS: Let me just go through this process a little bit. You talked about you see them, you collect them, you put them under a stereoscope. And so this is a magnifying glasses, or as you described yesterday, a magnifier with two eye pieces. Does it also give you kind of an enlarged view and a very good line color view of these particular hairs and fibers? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And then you compared that to the carpet samples the police department had provided to you? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And when you -- you make that comparison yourself, it doesn't appear you have a match because there's color differences? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then you preserve those particular items for later examination? KYO: The fibers from the clothing articles? HARRIS: Yes. KYO: They are repackaged with the item. And – HARRIS: When you say repackaged, just so that we're clear about this, do you stick them back on the blouse? KYO: It's -- it's -- it's in a separate fold -- folded package, but is -- is go back in the item that come with it. So it's with the item. HARRIS: Okay. KYO: It's not sticking back on the clothing, no. HARRIS: Okay. Just want to be clear about that. KYO: Right. HARRIS: So you -- you do the comparison, you repackage it, and you return it to the police department with the original item? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Okay. Did you receive another request -- moving on to request number 20; for counsel that would be 2685 -- looks like 59. Have you -- just giving you a chance to get to your -- your report. In this particular item -- or this particular item that you were asked to look at, did the Modesto Police Department give you an item that was marked as R-I-C-H dash 1 that stood for Richmond 1? KYO: This particular item, I went to the Richmond Police Department and collected it myself. HARRIS: So you actually went to Richmond? KYO: Right. HARRIS: And picked it up? KYO: And I received this item from Jeff Soler of the Richmond Police Department. HARRIS: And that was a detective that had some evidence in this particular case? KYO: That's correct. HARRIS: Now, this particular item, did you receive it from him and -- in the original condition that he had collected it? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: If I can have marked next a series of photographs. JUDGE: 253. HARRIS: There's nine photographs. JUDGE: A through I HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, let me present to you 253 A through I, see if you recognize what's depicted in these photographs. KYO: I recognize these as a series of photograph I have taken of item Rich 1. HARRIS: And these photographs, do they accurately depict the items that are present in the photographs? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And these are the items that you examined? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Starting with 253 A, if you can describe for us what this is. KYO: This manila envelope and the piece of paper with item number attached to that, that's the -- that's the kind of packaging -- a packaging that I got from Richmond PD, and inside this package I take out this plastic bag containing this twine-like material. HARRIS: 253 B, is this just the back side of the same packages? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: 253 C? KYO: This is a close-up of the material inside the plastic bag. HARRIS: Did you remove the -- you described it as a twine-like material. Did you remove that from the plastic bag? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Showing you 253 D. KYO: And this is a photograph of the twine-like material, plastic material after I remove from the Ziploc bag. HARRIS: And at the bottom do we see your handwriting identifying this particular item? KYO: That’s correct. This is the item, Rich 1. My case number, the day that I examine, with my initials. HARRIS: And looking to the left of that particular item, is there some kind of place where the -- appears to be some type of overlap or curling of the material towards the end of the left? KYO: It's almost like a bow-like knot, but it's the very loose knot, not a very tight knot. HARRIS: Showing you -- did you take a close-up photograph of that? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: Looking at 253 E. KYO: As you can see it's look like a bow, but the way it tie is very loosely tied. HARRIS: And did you take that knot out or the bow out at some point in time? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Did you have any difficulty with it? KYO: No difficulty with that. HARRIS: Did you also try to see what the width of this type of material was? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Showing you 250 F (sic). KYO: The twine-like material, when I peeled it and stretch it out, this is a photograph of that material over here, and it's approximately six inch wide. HARRIS: Showing you 250 G (sic), does this show the left end of that material in the photographs after you've taken the bow out? KYO: That’s correct. And you can see there's a -- a knot. This is a very tight overhand knot that's left after the bow is taken out. HARRIS: And that particular knot, did it have anything to do with that bow? KYO: No. HARRIS: Did you ever try to or attempt to take or take that knot out of the twine? KYO: I didn't try to unknot that one because pretty tight. HARRIS: It was pretty tight? KYO: Right. HARRIS: Showing you 250 H (sic), is this the material to the -- towards the middle section of that? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then 250 I (sic), this goes back to that knot that you were describing for us? KYO: That’s correct. And there are other insects, bugs in the bag also. So I just take a photograph of that also. HARRIS: Now, that particular knot, you were saying that was pretty tight. Could you tell the distinct difference in that knot and that bow that you had seen, that you had taken out? KYO: Correct. This knot has overhand, taut, very taut. The other one you can really see where -- where the tying part is very loosely placed together. HARRIS: Did you try to figure out what this material was? KYO: I give a piece of material from this plastic to Sarah Yoshida, a criminalist at our laboratory, and she examine this piece of material to the fully at length. HARRIS: And after that -- Miss Yoshida had done the machine or the kind of chemical test of this to find out that it was the polyethylene, did you do some Internet research to try and figure out what that particular item was used for? KYO: I -- because this look like a film type of material, so I type in polyethylene film and its use in packaging industry, but the way is I found this piece of material is twine-like material. So when I put in polyethylene twine, and through the Internet search polyethylene seine twine, and the Internet polyethylene seine, S-E-I-N (sic) twine, that is used in the fishing industry. HARRIS: Now, when you looked at this particular piece of item, Rich dash 1, did you also do the -- besides the photograph, the documentation that way, did you do the same generalized exam that you've described for us before? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And can you describe for us what, if anything, you found? KYO: I -- well, when I was examining this particular piece of plastic twine-like material, I have -- I smelled that it's a musty smell. It's not like ocean smell, it's a little bit more mustier, muggier smell, and let's see... GERAGOS: May I ask what page you're refreshing your recollection with? KYO: I -- okay, I'm looking at page number three on my notes. HARRIS: So that would be Bates stamp 25877. KYO: And I stated that it's -- I observed bugs, insects, algaes and dirt debris. And I didn't observe any hair-like fibers with this particular item. HARRIS: Did you happen to find any barnacles with this item? KYO: I didn't -- I didn't note that I found barnacles on this item. HARRIS: Okay. Moving onto your next request, number 21 -- actually, before we move on, so I'm clear about that, you didn't find any hairs or fibers or barnacles or items at all on this particular item that we're looking at, Rich dash 1? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So moving on to 21, were you again given a package of material from another police agency, the East Bay Regional Park District, to look at in request number 21? KYO: I'm sorry, could I go back to previous statement when you talk about I didn't find any hairs, fibers? HARRIS: Yes. KYO: I didn't find any hair-like fibers. That's where -- the way I noted it in my notes. So, anyway. HARRIS: All right. If you can explain, what does that mean, hair-like fibers? KYO: Hair-like fibers, meaning when you look at under stereoscope you see structures look like hair. HARRIS: So you didn't see anything like that? KYO: That's -- that's correct. HARRIS: So to my question, I guess I should be more precise, you didn't find any hair-like structures, barnacles, on that particular item? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So on 21, did you receive an item from the East Bay Regional Park District with the number of 819 dash 30? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: Give me a second so I can... GERAGOS: Request number 21? HARRIS: Yes. 31434 – GERAGOS: Thanks. HARRIS: -- Bates number. HARRIS: And this particular item, did it appear to be a number of items in a bag? KYO: Right. Item 819 dash...okay. GERAGOS: Talking about 819 dash 30? HARRIS: Yes. Perhaps it will be easier if I can have some photographs marked next in order. JUDGE: 254. HARRIS: I think there's five. JUDGE: A through E. HARRIS: Yes, there's five photographs. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, if I can have you look at 254 A through E, have you look at these and see if you recognize what's depicted in these photographs. KYO: I recognize photograph I have taken of 819 dash 30. HARRIS: And these photographs accurately depict the items that were present during your examination? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Starting with 254 A, if you can describe for us what we see here. KYO: I receive a -- a brown paper bag containing white paper wrap, pieces of plastic, containing material. HARRIS: And did you -- in the middle there's the items in the white paper wrap. Did you remove that and photograph that? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Showing you 254 B, can you describe for us what that is? KYO: This is a debris that come from the Bay, and it's a -- the pieces of plastic twine-like -- and then plastic tying material and other debris on it, and I take another photograph of this. HARRIS: Let me move forward then. 254 C, is this a close-up of some of the items that your -- with that ruler label that we've been talking about? KYO: That’s correct. And in this particular, it's a close-up , and there's some -- some hairs, fiber-like debris among this pile of junk. HARRIS: And did you start trying to sort some of this out and photograph that? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Showing you 254 D. KYO: In this pile of the debris I found purple gloves, packaging, plastics – HARRIS: Let me go back through this. You said purple gloves. Can you point out on this photograph, if it's visible. Up there at the top? And you said you found some packaging? KYO: Packaging plastics, like food packaging. HARRIS: Now, that appears to have some type of label, almost like it's some -- a label or container for a drink? KYO: Right. It's on here is Brisk. HARRIS: So the -- I believe it's an -- a type of iced tea? KYO: That's -- that's what I would think, yes. HARRIS: Okay. KYO: And these half-inch green ties and quarter-inch yellow ties, as well as these yellow caution tape. This is issue -- like you see the end over here, or is reverse side of the yellow caution tape. HARRIS: Now, the yellow caution tape, that's something that you see at a construction site or crime scene, that yellow banner that goes across someplace? KYO: I also see with the kind of area, that's correct. HARRIS: What else did you find in this pile? KYO: At the -- at the bottom area over here there's kind of like a piece of green glove, and – HARRIS: Some other type of glove? KYO: Yes. And this is -- you might not be able to tell, but it's a dirty, but it's a socks. This is a tag, plastic tag, and with a loop of string around it. As well as this whole plastic, long piece of plastic. It's about -- in my measurement is about 17 inch wide piece of plastic. And it's look -- there's whole bunch of those in this junk. HARRIS: Let me go ahead and put up 254 E. That piece of plastic that you're talking about, is that a more close-up photograph of it? KYO: Can you go back to the other one? HARRIS: Showing 254 D. KYO: This is a piece of plastic. There's a lot of it, and there's a separate piece of plastic that I pulled it out because that's -- this is over here. The one that I'm talking about, the separate piece of plastic that's smaller as far as the -- the way it's -- the width, so I'm just going to spread it out and see what's the width of it. So that's the next photograph. HARRIS: Okay. The small piece of plastic above the placard in 254 D, you spread that out, and that would be this photograph 254 E? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: All right. Let me go back to the previous photograph, 254 D. There's also an item up here. This item right here. What's that particular item? KYO: It's a piece of twig. HARRIS: Some type of stick or wood material? KYO: Stick, yes, that's right. HARRIS: Now, the plastic material that we see in those two photographs, the big one that's up there in 254 D and the one that you opened up in 254 E, did you have a piece of that also tested by Miss Yoshida? KYO: We did not test -- well, Sarah Yoshida didn't test this big white piece of material, but she tested this smaller piece of plastic because it's -- appearance-wise and width-wise is similar to piece of plastic that I examine previously. HARRIS: In your previous request, the one that was associated with the victim, Conner Peterson, from Richmond 1? KYO: Right. From my request number 20. So Sarah Yoshida did the analysis of this material, and she found that this is chemically similar to the one that is on Conner's. HARRIS: Now, the -- this particular bag of items that's depicted in the photographs 254 A through E, when you received these, these were all together? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: Do they all appear to be in kind of the same general dirty condition? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: I want to go back to one of the requests that you were talking about yesterday, and that's one of the first requests we did involving the boat cover. Was there a second exam done of the boat cover to see if there was any -- you've already told us about looking at it for bloodstains -- to see if there was any kind of biological stain associated with that, such as urine or feces? KYO: Yes. I'm aware of a request that submitted to our laboratory to examine for urines and feces. HARRIS: And that tested negative? KYO: That’s correct. I did not perform that particular test, but the criminalist, Nancy Seger -- do you want me to spell it out? N-A-N-C-Y, S-E-G-E-R, Seger. HARRIS: And the boat cover that we're talking about, again, that's the one that had that gasoline smell when you examined it? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: I have no further questions at this time.
Cross Examination by Mark Geragos JUDGE: Mr. Geragos, prepared to proceed? GERAGOS: May I have just a moment, your Honor? JUDGE: Yeah. GERAGOS: I've got a number of reports, and I want to get the exhibits as well. GERAGOS: I'm going to show you a series of pictures, and I believe all of these refer to your report that is dated January 21st of 1003 (sic), which is your request number -- what Mr. Harris was calling your request number 1. KYO: Okay. GERAGOS: Can you take a look at those pictures and tell me if those appear to be the items that you tested? KYO: I will have to refer to my photographs. GERAGOS: Okay. Is it easier for you to do that as opposed to these? These are the pictures of where these items were taken from in the house. KYO: I wasn't there – GERAGOS: I understand. KYO: to collect it, so I will have to refer to it to make sure they are the item. GERAGOS: Okay. The first one is a picture of a knife. HARRIS: Is that page 11 of her notes? GERAGOS: I thought it was. KYO: 11? GERAGOS: She's got it in a different order on here. KYO: Thank you. That's correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And now, this -- I've got a series of pictures, here, Judge, that I should probably just mark them. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. A through I? JUDGE: No, this would be -- well, these are Defendant's Exhibit D 6 G. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: And it's K 1 through 10. CLERK: Should be D 6 L. JUDGE: D 6 L, 1 through 10. DISTASO: Okay. The first one which I just pointed you to, which is on page 11 of your notes, as Mr. Harris indicated, is a pocket knife; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And you were given a task to deal with this pocket knife, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. What were you asked to do? KYO: I was asked to examine this knife for blood. GERAGOS: Okay. And what was the results of that examination? KYO: I did not find blood on this knife. GERAGOS: Did you find any tissue? Did you find anything on that knife whatsoever? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, that knife you examined and you've got four different pictures of it in your notes; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. You did a sample or a measurement of it, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. There was a number of spots on there -- this page I've gotten, I've already previously indicated and worked out with Mr. Harris that if we borrow her original that we'll substitute it. JUDGE: All right. Does it have -- okay, you're pulling it out of her notes? KYO: I'm sorry, are you going to keep it? GERAGOS: I'll make a color copy. We'll substitute that. JUDGE: They'll get that back to you. KYO: Oh, thank you. GERAGOS: Now, this knife, you had a number of different spots on here; and you tested all of these spots, correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: If there's a negative, that means that you had something, you thought that there might be something there at all these spots, and the negative means nothing -- negative for blood, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the -- I guess I should make these -- this series that I'm going to do with her, and I don't know how many we'll end up pulling out of here, but D 6 M? JUDGE: This will be -- the next would be D 6 M. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: D M. DISTASO: Actually – JUDGE: Defendant's 6 D M. HARRIS: -- I would make a suggestion. Since it relates to one of the photographs that he's going to mark, that we mark it as a subset of whichever photograph that is. GERAGOS: I don't think that's a good idea only because she's got different ones. I'd rather do it this way, if we could. JUDGE: All right. GERAGOS: And I'll just put these separately – KYO: Okay. GERAGOS: I'll color copy them and get them back to you. KYO: All right. GERAGOS: Okay. That's D 6 M GERAGOS: All right. The next item that you were given to test is what? Out of this group? We went over yesterday -- I'll just skip through it. We went through the mop – KYO: Right. GERAGOS: with the sponge on it. You tested that for blood. It was negative, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And then this close-up photo, you also took a look at the -- and this was marked as 239 B, and specifically you were looking here for any sign of blood or debris or tissue or anything like that, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Because you would expect that, if this mop were used to clean up some blood or some kind of a crime scene, that you would have some evidence that you would find on the sponge, because the sponge would absorb that, correct? That's why you were looking on it – KYO: That’s correct – GERAGOS: you were – KYO: but depending on the concentration, or the amount of that blood, or whatever that's – GERAGOS: Correct. KYO: that I'm looking for, right, so... GERAGOS: You found absolutely nothing? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Okay. Then you did -- the other item you were given, which was 239 C, this is a mop, a string -- what you called a string mop; is that correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Now, the string mop that you were given, also you were looking to see whether or not there was any signs of blood or tissue or anything else on there, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And there was absolutely nothing on there, right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. In fact, the only thing that you noticed about that is that it was a relatively clean string mop, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Didn't appear that dirty? It was a pretty clean mop? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You were also given this bucket, which was marked as 239 D. 239 D is a bucket. And inside this bucket, what did you find? KYO: I didn't find any blood. GERAGOS: No blood, no tissue, nothing. You did find what looked to be detergent, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And one would suppose that if you've got a couple of mops that smell like detergent and you've got a bucket that's got the remnants of detergent, that it looks like maybe the mop was used to mop the floor? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. The -- you were given this boat cover; is that correct? And is this -- if I understand correctly, did you lay it out the way -- so that the -- is this the engine cover portion that you were talking about yesterday? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you did a little diagram, didn't you? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have that handy? That's the next thing that I'm going to rip out of there. HARRIS: Page 24. GERAGOS: Now, this diagram is of the -- basically you took that and then you sketched it? You took 230 -- what is it, 240, you sketched it and you came up with this, correct? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. And then this is what I just referred to as that motor cover, or engine cover? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. All of these are spots that you tested on the boat cover, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And all of the negatives in parentheses means you tested that; it was a spot, it was brown or it was red or it was some discoloration, you tested it and it was negative for blood? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you also said that you found something that looked like chunks of concrete; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And yesterday there was marked -- is that this item of debris taken from the boat cover? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. And that's placed in one envelope, and then there's another envelope, and then we open up this other envelope and there's yet another envelope. Could you open that so that the jury can see what these chunks of concrete look like? HARRIS: You have to open it. Another bindle. GERAGOS: There's probably another envelope inside of that envelope. KYO: It's a bindle. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: Of debris. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: I don't want to open it up. It might fall out. GERAGOS: Okay. I'll open it up. I believe that I can do it on here so the jury can see what is it we're talking about? JUDGE: You're not going to take it out of the plastic baggie? GERAGOS: No, I'm not. I'm just going to hold it like this. This is what we're talking about, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Could I just show this to the jury? If I could? And I'll try not – JUDGE: Yes, you can walk right by, and we'll admit it in evidence. All right. 240 E is admitted into evidence. Take the same number GERAGOS: Now, this is what was called the chunks of concrete? Is that right? Is that what you labeled it as? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, these chunks of concrete that came from the boat cover, I'm going to show you one other item that's previously been marked -- you have the smaller bindle up there? The smaller envelope? KYO: When I was examining these pieces of article, I look at it under stereoscope, and so it look like chunk of concrete. GERAGOS: It looked like a chunk of concrete. When you look at it in real life it doesn't really look like a chunk, does it? It looks like -- let me show you something that's been previously marked as People's 72. Now that's a chunk of concrete. Take a look at – KYO: That depends on definition of "chunk." GERAGOS: Right. You and I have different definitions of "chunk." KYO: Right. When you look at it microscopically, that's a chunk. GERAGOS: Can you take a look at what's in the bottom of this bag? What does that look like? KYO: It's a – GERAGOS: Chunk of concrete. KYO: It's a -- more finer fibers, chunk of concrete. GERAGOS: Right. Does it look like maybe it came off of the bottom of this thing? KYO: I wouldn't know. GERAGOS: Okay. Can I show this to the jury as well? JUDGE: Yes. GERAGOS: The interior of the bag, so that they can see? JUDGE: What's that number, Mr. Geragos. JUDGE: I think it's -- I've got it right there. 72. HARRIS: The sticker is on the anchor end. JUDGE: 72. I've got to go back to my old list there. 72. JUDGE: That's already in evidence. GERAGOS: Does it look to you like the same kind of little chunks of concrete could have come -- that were on the boat cover could have come right off of here? Does that look like it's a pretty good -- pretty good forensic match? KYO: The -- what I -- what I examine is the pieces that come out of the tarp, the boat cover, so – GERAGOS: Right. KYO: that's what I found. GERAGOS: Right. And I'm asking you does it look like that cement dust was roughly about the same kind of dust that you get in the plastic bag that we -- that I just showed you? KYO: It does not appear to be. GERAGOS: It doesn't appear to be the same? KYO: The same. GERAGOS: Do you want to take a look and compare? Do you have any expertise in comparing cement? KYO: Just visual. JUDGE: You don't have to be an expert to just look at it. GERAGOS: Yeah. KYO: Just visually. GERAGOS: You want to take a look at it and tell me if it looks similar? Take a look at that. You're going to tell me that doesn't look virtually the same? KYO: It has some similarity to it. GERAGOS: It's got a lot of similarity to it, doesn't it? KYO: (No response) GERAGOS: Now, the -- the cement, the cement residue you found on the boat cover, is that -- I assume when you laid out the boat cover, you laid it out on some kind of a butcher block paper; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And then you -- when you do that, lay it out on a cement -- butcher block type paper, after you do that, I assume you take the butcher block paper and fold it over and try and collect the debris; is that right? KYO: That's -- that's right. GERAGOS: Okay. And so the debris that you put into the bindle, that's a remnant of your examination of the boat cover, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. So when -- you could shake off the boat cover -- not shake it off, but when you fold it back up and put it into whatever evidence box or envelope that you're going to use, the remnants of it goes into that bindle, and that's what we've got right here in this People's number 241, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Now, the -- were you also given a pair of work boots -- this will be the next marked in order, which is the schematic of your -- of the boat cover with the markings on it. JUDGE: All right. This is the 6, 6 D M, right? GERAGOS: Right. GERAGOS: Now, this – JUDGE: Wait. You're losing me here, Mr. Geragos. GERAGOS: I'm sorry, Judge. JUDGE: I'm trying to keep track of these exhibits. GERAGOS: I believe it's the D 6 M. JUDGE: Was the knife that you took out of her -- photograph of the knife you took out of her notes. GERAGOS: Right. So why don't we make that 1 is the knife. We'll make this 2? Is that okay? CLERK: The boat cover? GERAGOS: Yeah. JUDGE: Okay. Let's make the knife will be M, and then we'll make it M 1. GERAGOS: All right. Make that M 2. GERAGOS: Now, were you given these particular shoes and asked to do something with them? KYO: I was asked to examine it for blood. GERAGOS: Okay. And do you have some -- do you have a worksheet there that you used? Okay. Now, these shoes, these are the shoes, I'll tell you right now, that were photographed over at the house. And then they were given to you. Looks to be the same shoes right here, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And you went and took various areas of the shoes, once again the same thing, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You tested all of these various spots on the shoes? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And all these little negative signs, once again, that was that LMG test, and they all came back negative. So on the shoes that were seized, that was also -- all of them were tested, and how many -- approximately how many spots did you test? KYO: Several. GERAGOS: Looks like one, two -- one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven, twenty-eight, twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-one, thirty-two, thirty-three, thirty-four, thirty-five; is that about right? KYO: About right. GERAGOS: Okay. And all 35 -- 35 for 35 negative for blood, correct? KYO: Negative for presumptive test for blood. GERAGOS: Okay. So you didn't find anything on there, right? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. Then one of the next things that you were giving -- JUDGE: Mr. Geragos, I got -- I got to stop you here for just a second because you're losing us here. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: Because you're whipping those things out of her notebook. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: Defendant's 6 D M is the knife. GERAGOS: Yeah. JUDGE: Photographs of the knife. GERAGOS: Yeah, you made that M 1. JUDGE: No, M 1 is the boat cover. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: M 2 is the photograph of the shoes. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: And then M 3 is the shoes close up that you just pointed out. GERAGOS: Okay, are we all on the same page here? No, we're not, because we already marked -- we marked the shoes as D 6 L dash 2. And then hers I wanted to mark, if I could, as D 6 M -- what would it be? CLERK: 2. GERAGOS: 2. JUDGE: All right. D 6 L dash 2 are the photograph of the shoes? GERAGOS: Right. That's up on the board. JUDGE: All right. And what's 1 then? GERAGOS: And 1 -- 1 is the boat -- well, D 6 M is the knife. D 6 M 1 is the boat cover. JUDGE: Right, I got that. GERAGOS: All right. D 6 M dash 2 would be her -- JUDGE: Close-up of the shoes, right. GERAGOS: Right. Her close-up of the shoes. JUDGE: All right. GERAGOS: Now, there -- one of the other things that you were given was this item right here; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And you were also asked to do some kind of a test on this as well; is that right? KYO: That is correct. GERAGOS: And you have -- I'm going to pull it out again. Judge, if I can mark -- 612. JUDGE: Okay. That's D G L 3, right? GERAGOS: Yes. That's D G L 3, and I'm going to ask to mark this as -- 614. CLERK: It's 6. GERAGOS: D 6, I'm sorry. CLERK: Not G. JUDGE: I mean D -- D 6 L 3. GERAGOS: Right. And then I'm going to ask to mark this as – CLERK: Wait a minute. GERAGOS: All right. D 6 M dash 3. JUDGE: All right. GERAGOS: And D 6 M dash 3 is your photograph of the shoes, those shoes that I just showed that were taken from the house; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Once again, the same spots were all tested. Any place there's one of these little negative signs, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And the -- you swabbed all of them, correct? Tested all of them with the LMG test? KYO: Yes, I did. GERAGOS: Okay. And when you tested them with the LMG test in all those spots, they were all negative, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the specific -- let's see, one of the next things you tested was what was marked as 240 C. What is that? Is that the boat cover just spread out flat? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you said it smelled like gasoline; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Did you -- when you did the test, did you test or see any specific area that looked to you like it was discolored with gasoline or anything else? KYO: I just tested general area. GERAGOS: Okay. Once again negative, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: Why don't we take the morning recess now. GERAGOS: Sure. JUDGE: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we'll take a recess until five minutes to 11:00. Remember the admonition I've heretofore given you. You may step down. JUDGE: All right. This is People versus Scott Peterson. Let the record show the defendant is present with counsel. The jury is in the jury box, along with the alternates. Is it starting with F? HARRIS: Yes. JUDGE: Four items were mismarked. GERAGOS: Shall I wait for Marilyn? JUDGE: Right. She's got to keep track. All right, for the record, inadvertently on People's Number 253F, G, H, I were inadvertently marked 250. Should have been 253F, G, H, and I. We have corrected that. I just wanted to correct that for the record. The last one for the defense was Defendant's 6M-1, 2 and 3. okay? So we're on the same page. GERAGOS: The next one that I'm going to show, there was an item that was -- that I have marked as D6L-8. JUDGE: D6L-8. GERAGOS: D6L-8. JUDGE: What is that? Pair of pants? GERAGOS: A pair of pants. This was item number 46 taken out of the house. GERAGOS: And then you received item number 46 to test, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And what I'm holding in my hand are the sheet with the picture of item number 46 that's up there, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: I'd like to, judge, just so that there is some comity, to it put it as D6M dash 8, if I could. JUDGE: D6M dash 8. Is that going to screw you up? CLERK: We don't have 4, 5, 6, or 7. GERAGOS: I'm back filling on that if I can. I'm going to go along with, so they match up. JUDGE: Wait a minute. What are you marking as D6 -- GERAGOS: D6M dash 8 is her analysis. JUDGE: Her analysis. GERAGOS: This is your analysis of these jeans that were seized from the house, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay what. You did is, you checked out on the blue jeans, various stains that were on the front, because you can see pockets there, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And all of those came back negative for blood, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Then you flipped them over; is that right? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And you got a marking here, looks like from the waist and down to right here, there is no blood like stains, correct? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: And then there is a couple of stains, looks like four of them town towards the bottom. KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Those are all negative, right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And in the pocket you found a couple of business cards for the Modesto PD; is that correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Now, the next item that you tested was this -- was D6L-10, which was item -- item number 52. And that was another pair of jeans that was seized from the house; is that right? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Now, this is her analysis, judge, D6L-10, which is item number 52. I'd like to mark this is D6M dash 10. JUDGE: Okay. We're going to skip nine? GERAGOS: Right. GERAGOS: You did the same thing here, you laid them out, and you went inside -- looks like about 12 there and about four here on the reverse side. All negative for blood, right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And you went inside the back pockets, correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And you went inside the front pockets? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And you went inside the seams as well? KYO: That’s right. 5GERAGOS: And you found no blood whatsoever, correct? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Now, the next thing that I think that you tested was a container; is that right? A Simple Green container that was given to you? KYO: Simple Green container. GERAGOS: Do you have that there? Take both of these. Take all three. Now, this is a container that was seized by the police. They also asked you to go through this container as well; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: This -- you were told that this was taken or found in the truck; is that right? KYO: I don't recall that. But if you say that is – GERAGOS: This is a three-page document. I don't have a corresponding so I can backfill with the numbers. It's 9. D6M-9. Will that work? JUDGE: Okay. D6M-9, group exhibit, three -- DISTASO: Group exhibit. GERAGOS: Group exhibit, three pages. JUDGE: All right. GERAGOS: Now, this is a container that you have got a measurement here. That's kind of tough to tell. Can you tell the jury approximately how tall this is, this bucket? KYO: It's approximately seven inch. GERAGOS: Seven inch. And this was -- there was some brown stains or water spots that were observed; is that correct? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. And this -- it says on the front of it that it's a -- looks like a safety towel, a cleaning or scrub -- scrub type towel that you pull the towels out, you can wipe your hands with; is that correct? KYO: I believe that's what it's used for. GERAGOS: And so I guess the thought was, if somebody was going to clean up, and they had some tissue or blood on it, this would be a good item to test, because if you picked it up, and you had blood on your hands, in order to clean it off, you could test and see if there is blood on the outside; is that correct? HARRIS: Objection. Speculation and compound. JUDGE: Sustained. GERAGOS: Okay. Did you test all these points, again all these areas? KYO: I did. GERAGOS: You did? KYO: I did. GERAGOS: Okay. It was negative? KYO: Negative for presumptive test for blood. GERAGOS: You did all -- both sides of it, correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: You did the top, the bottom? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You also -- looks like unsnapped the lid, right, and there is two spots there? Those were both negative; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: You tested even the liquid that was around there as well; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And basically there was absolutely nothing to with blood connected to this, correct? KYO: I did not find any presumptive test positive blood? GERAGOS: That's nine. Now, the next thing you tested in that group -- this is all January 21st; is that right? KYO: Can you give me item number? GERAGOS: The item number -- request number was Number 1. It looks to me like these were all of -- well, one of the things that you did collect was on the blue tarp. You looked at the blue tarp, you found some debris on it; is that correct. I'm looking at 23423. HARRIS: Page one of her notes. KYO: Okay. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, on the blue tarp you found a couple of things; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. You found two long, light blonde hairs; is that right? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: And some other possible animal hairs? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. Did anybody ever have you compare those light blonde hairs with anybody? KYO: I do not. If anything, it would be Rod Oswalt. But I'm not sure whether there was request that was requested, or whether that was done. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: So you will have to refer to his notes. GERAGOS: Because he's the hair analyst? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: How long were the light blonde hairs? KYO: I just generally stated light, long blonde hair. I did not measure exact measurements. But I collected it. So if they are being tested further, they will have all the information from the evidence. GERAGOS: You have got a picture of exactly how you did that. Could I take that out as well? I'll mark that as next in order. I've got previously marked D6L dash 5. This is item number 41 that was taken from the house. Does that have -- is that item number 41 as you have it? KYO: That’s right. JUDGE: That is the blue tarp? GERAGOS: That's the blue tarp recovered from the house. And on this -- I'm going to mark this, if I could, judge, this will be D6M-5. JUDGE: Five. GERAGOS: Okay JUDGE: Analysis of the tarp? GERAGOS: Yeah, analysis. GERAGOS: Now, if I understand correct, you have got two areas that were tested, and they were negative for blood; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And the one thing you did collect is a fine, long, light blonde hair that was right here? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And this is the other area that was negative for blood? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: So here and here. Both were two stains. They were negative. Then you had two long, fine, light blonde hairs and short possible animal hairs, right? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: But no blood, no tissue, nothing of any moment, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, in addition to that, Mr. Harris was asking you about the vacuum. Do you remember that? The Dirt Devil? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: The Dirt Devil. In the Dirt Devil, specifically I'll get to that in a minute. That was a different report, wasn't it? KYO: Uh-huh. GERAGOS: Not done on the 21st? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: I don't want to mess around with that. You also were given some swabs that were specifically identified to you as a swab that was taken from the steering wheel of the truck; is that right? KYO: If you could give me item number. GERAGOS: Looks like items number 1-F, and 1-HH, and 1-MM. KYO: I am told that it was from the pickup truck. GERAGOS: Okay. And you were told specifically that no blood -- your conclusion was no blood was detected on the steering wheel swab, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You also had some swabs that were associated with the house door. And that was item 24-B through E? KYO: B through E? GERAGOS: Right. KYO: Right. GERAGOS: How many swabs were those? KYO: B, C, D, E. Four swabs. GERAGOS: Those four swabs were identified as coming from the door of the house on Covena; is that right? That's what you understand it to be. Somebody had swabbed the spots that were suspicious at Covena? KYO: In my note I have nine swabs associated with the house door. GERAGOS: With the house door? KYO: Yes. I'm not sure. GERAGOS: Let me show you why I think that it was four. Well, maybe it is nine. You have nine total that are taken from the house? KYO: B through E, and G, H, J -- and G through L. GERAGOS: So there were nine total swabs that were taken from the house on Covena. And there was no blood on any of them; is that correct? KYO: That's correct. GERAGOS: Then there was -- let's see. There were -- it says no blood was detected on the steering wheel -- the steering wheel swab and six other swabs associated with the pickup truck; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And no blood was detected on the two swabs associated with the warehouse; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. So I assume you get the swabs -- we have heard twenty times in this case, you have got this little cotton Q-Tip type things that somebody -- one of the officers swabs on the door or on some other suspicious spot? KYO: Stain area. They will swab that. GERAGOS: They give it back, and give it back to you. You will test it? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: None were on the pickup. On the ones that were given to you, none were on the steering wheel, none were on -- none of the house door, none door -- one, two given for the warehouse. Those were negative for blood. You were given two from the Land Rover car, truck – HARRIS: I have to object as counsel's recitation. That misstates her testimony. She testified yesterday about, there were some items from the pickup truck that did test positive. GERAGOS: I'm going to get to that. I'm. Just going over her report. This is what she is testified to. JUDGE: Overruled. Go ahead. GERAGOS: Now, you had two swabs that were associated with the Land Rover, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: They were negative for blood? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: So that we understand then, the pocket knife was negative. We already went through that. Then you did a water sample; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Do you know where the water sample was taken from? KYO: I believe it was -- let me refer to my notes. GERAGOS: Okay. I'm looking at page 33. Is that the water sample you are talking about? KYO: I just received it as a specimen containing sample, water sample. GERAGOS: Water sample. They didn't tell you if it came from the boat, or where it came from; is that correct? KYO: Not to my recollection on my note. GERAGOS: Okay. And did you test that for blood? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And came back negative? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Then you received an item number 48; is that correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. And item number 48 you identified as a leash; is that right? KYO: That’s right. JUDGE: Just for the record, Mr. Geragos, what number is that? GERAGOS: That's marked as D6L dash 9. JUDGE: Dash 9. GERAGOS: Okay. You tested that, right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And that came back negative? KYO: Was there a question? GERAGOS: I said did that come back negative? KYO: Yes. It tested negative for blood. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, on the 21st, did you also -- is that the day that you -- I believe it was -- where you did the swabs from the comforter cover and from the pickup truck; is that right? Which are separate and apart from the other swabs that you were talking about. I'm looking to the first paragraph of your report. KYO: Okay. GERAGOS: Looks like, as we indicated, you had six swabs associated with the pickup truck and the steering wheel. Those were negative? KYO: Uh-huh. GERAGOS: There were four stains on the comforter cover that we saw yesterday that presumptively tested positive for blood? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And four swabs from the pickup truck that tested presumptively positive for blood? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, if I understand correct then, the gentleman who is waiting out in the wings here, Mr. Hudlow, he's the person that you then sent those presumptive samples over to to do further analysis to see if it's Scott Peterson's blood or not, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, these samples of the -- we saw the comforter yesterday. For instance, how large would you say that those little stains were? KYO: Those are very small. Let me refer to my notes and see what's the measurements. Approximately three millimeter by three millimeter. GERAGOS: Okay. I'm going to pull this one out. I promise I'll given it back to you this afternoon. Now, this is the way that you tested those little spots; is that correct? Or the way you photographed it? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. When we're looking at this – JUDGE: Can I have that number, Mr. Geragos? GERAGOS: Ask this be marked as -- I can backfill with this 7. JUDGE: 7 is available. GERAGOS: D6M-7. GERAGOS: Now, the first thing is, you testified yesterday these are not the stains. These are the Post-Its, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. If you -- reason we put the Post-Its on there, if you photographed it, you would not be able to see them; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: In fact, here, in this one here, the close-up, that's what we're talking about right there; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And then on these, that's one of the others right there? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And this one also? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. Now -- and then the fourth one is right there; is that right? Are you able to tell how old those are? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Are you able to tell how much blood actually caused that stain, for instance, that's up here? Right here? It is a very small amount of blood, isn't it? KYO: That would be a very small amount of blood. GERAGOS: Extremely small, isn't it? KYO: Depending on when you say how extreme that is. GERAGOS: Well, the -- I have got it blown up here. This is incredibly large compared to the way that you are looking at it on the actual item; isn't that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: When you are looking at it, it's virtually almost undetectable except to your trained eye? KYO: You can see it. GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have that with you? By the way, do you have the cuttings? KYO: No, I don't. GERAGOS: Do you know where the cuttings are? KYO: I believe it was stored in our laboratory. But – GERAGOS: Now, the -- specifically the other items that you looked at on the 21st, that pretty much comprises everything that you looked at; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. You did -- well, let me see. Looks like the water standard sample and the possible blood sample also that you tested came from Laci Peterson's Land Rover; is that right? I'm looking at page two of your report. KYO: 38 -- page 38, you say? GERAGOS: No. Page two. KYO: Page two. GERAGOS: Actually page three of three -- sorry -- of this report. Is this -- does it look to you like you got a portion of a roof liner from the Land Rover? KYO: Un-hum. GERAGOS: Is that yes? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And cargo cover from the Land Rover? KYO: I tested that. GERAGOS: Yes. All those came back negative for blood; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Now, the next testing that you did was on what day, do you remember? KYO: Are you asking for the next report? GERAGOS: Yes. The next report I assume would be connected to the next submission of items to you. KYO: Request Number 4? GERAGOS: Right. That would be -- that's the Dirt Devil. And that was on – KYO: That’s right. The vacuum. GERAGOS: March 10th? KYO: It was submitted on January 23rd. And are you asking when I began testing those items? GERAGOS: Yes. When did you end up testing it? KYO: On February 5th. GERAGOS: When you tested these on February 5th, some of the items – KYO: I'm sorry. Could I go back to the vacuum, the Dirt Devil? The vacuum was tested on the February 4th. GERAGOS: Okay. When you receive these -- let's see. You were also given on that day a blue tarp from the Bay; is that right? Item Request Number 4. KYO: That’s right. The items I received, I generally get these items from a property controller who handled all the evidence. I received several items on March 10th -- I mean February 10th, 2003. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, if I understand correctly, you were -- then there was a blue tarp that you were given. And you were also -- as you testified yesterday, you had some debris from the Dirt Devil vacuum; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And you zipped or cut open the vacuum cleaner bag; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And you took out the contents, or a portion of the contents of the vacuum cleaner bag, right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And the reason you did that is you got it marked here looks like 216C. Now, one of the things that you were supposed to take a look at, or you were asked to take a look at, is to see whether or not there was any piece of blue tarp that was observed in the vacuum debris and Dirt Devil vacuum; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And your conclusion was, is that there were no pieces of blue tarp observed in the vacuum debris and Dirt Devil vacuum, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you were also given on that day some – JUDGE: Mr. Geragos I think you identified it as 216C. I think it's 246C. GERAGOS: I am sorry. You are correct. 246C. JUDGE: Okay. GERAGOS: And that's -- what you did is, you took out this contents here; is that right, somewhere in there? KYO: I take out the contents directly across from the opening of the bag, which is above here, about there. And I also look at the other contents also. GERAGOS: I have got 246E. Yesterday there was a mention of this blue -- you compared this blue to the tarp, you concluded that they were not related, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the -- what you did find was, in this debris here, and this debris here, was Christmas tree type debris; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. One of them debris that I can identify is Christmas tree debris. GERAGOS: You found hair, fibers, pieces of grass, red confetti-like material, one live flea, dirt and debris; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, the next report that you were then given, or one that I have got, I have got Request Number 8. Do you have that? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Request Number 8. This is a series of items that were apparently seized from the house pursuant to the search warrant and given to you some time after the search warrant, some time after February 28th, but before March 13th; is that right? KYO: Could you repeat that question again? GERAGOS: Sure. These items here, which is marked as 247A -- and then if you take a look on the brown bag there, you can see that it was seized during the search warrant 2-18-03 at the time item number 218-45 -- that's how you mark it? KYO: That's not my marking. But the bottom with my initial. GERAGOS: When you received the items, do you have them with the identification number 218-45? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Now, you tested all of those. Those were negative for blood, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Now, there was, on this item, which was 247B tested these as well, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, these appear to be -- you said there was some men's pajamas; is that correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. And then these were the Polo socks you talked about yesterday? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And do you know what size those Polo socks were? KYO: Those are small enough for a female size. GERAGOS: Okay. And did you make a note of that? KYO: I have a photograph of it with a ruler. GERAGOS: With a ruler as to what the size was? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, the -- specifically you tested those. And I think yesterday you said that they tested positive on a presumptive test; but then later you did a species test, and -- for horse, cow, pig, something else, and it came back negative for all that, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And human, I assume, correct? KYO: All negative for all those specie. GERAGOS: For all species. So -- and that is not completely unusual that you would get presumptive test for blood, sometimes, because the presumptive test is over inclusive, correct? KYO: That's right. GERAGOS: Okay. So that's why you do the second species test to determine whether or not you are getting a false positive; is that right? KYO: You are testing sometimes for blood. You might not be testing for human blood. We do testing mainly for human blood. GERAGOS: Did you test for dog blood? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Did you – KYO: I test that blood to see if it is dog blood. But it's not dog blood. But there are other bloods, other animal exists that has blood on it also. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you also tested the -- if I understand right, this purse that's here; is that right? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And that purse, there was no blood on that, correct? Looking at the first page of Request Number 8. KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. And you also tested the novel. There was no blood on that, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. You were also -- the beige jacket, there was no blood on that; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. You also did this shirt that was on this previous exhibit, which was 247B. Not the pajamas, but the shirt itself. There was no blood on that; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And you also tested -- looks like there was an orange and brown powder and dark brown pieces from an interior closet door; is that correct? I'm looking at the third paragraph of your first page of your report. KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: You tested those, and they weren't blood right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You were given another swab from the master bedroom door of the house, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And that was a swab that was taken once again on February 18th. That's why it's got that 218 marking? KYO: That's why I believe they mark it that way. GERAGOS: No blood was detected on the master bedroom door, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Then you were given a camouflage jacket and folding knife and a book; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. HARRIS: I'm sorry, did counsel say "book"? GERAGOS: Hook. I'm sorry. Camouflage jacket, a folding knife, and a hook; is that right? KYO: With a hook, that's correct. GERAGOS: That was marked as 219 dash 79, which, under Modesto, was seized on February the 19th? KYO: I presume that's the way they mark it. GERAGOS: You tested the camouflage jacket, folding knife, and the hook, and you found that there was no blood, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, you were also given some more clothing to test that was marked under 219-85, 86, and 87 and 88 and 89, 90 and 92, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You were given a pair of jeans, a yellow t-shirt, a white "Vegas Vacation" t-shirt, a blue t-shirt, a gray sweatshirt, a white "Cal Poly" t-shirt, and a yellow jacket, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: No blood on any of them? KYO: No blood on any of them. GERAGOS: You were then, I assume, given some -- looked like there was some towels, and a there was some pillows and some pillow shams; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And that was given over to -- I assume was given to Ron Osterlund; is that correct? KYO: No. GERAGOS: He gave it to you guys? KYO: Yes. He brought it over. GERAGOS: Did you test those? KYO: No, I didn't. GERAGOS: Okay. And you didn't see anything that looked like it was worth testing; is that correct? KYO: We decided at that time we're not going to test them. So I didn't see the particular items. GERAGOS: So you were given basically what was described as a white towel; a pillow, no case; a white standard pillow; and another pillow with sham, and a green cloth or wrap around dress; correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And no testing was done on that? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: You were also given a paper bag containing a white shirt, and you tested all of those items; is that right? The white ones we just went over, the socks, and the shirt? KYO: Item 218 dash 31, that's correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Then you were also given -- let's see. It looks like somebody submitted some paint chips, red paint chips, and some paint transfers on a boat fishing pole holder; is that correct? KYO: Yes. They were being submitted to the laboratory. GERAGOS: Did you compare those? KYO: I didn't do anything with them. I did not compare. GERAGOS: You personally did not do anything? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Now, the next request that was made of you, was that Request Number 8? JUDGE: Was that Request Number 8? GERAGOS: What was the next request? KYO: 15. GERAGOS: 15? JUDGE: 15 was the next one. GERAGOS: Now, on Request Number 15, this was -- these are the items that you received from Contra Costa, some of these items? KYO: Some of these items are from Contra Costa GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you told Mr. Harris that you compared some duct tape; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And then you specifically collected from the duct tape that was associated with Laci's remains, six short, fine hairs; is that correct? KYO: That's how I noted it, right. GERAGOS: Did you end up determining later on what the hairs were, or did you give that to – KYO: Rod Oswalt. GERAGOS: Rod Oswalt to do the -- we have already heard from him. So then the other testing that you did on that particular day was in regards to the maternity blouse; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And you looked at that to see if there was any blood on it; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And/or any tearing? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: There was no tearing, no blood; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. Also to look for fibers. GERAGOS: Look for fibers. And the fibers that you found, if I understand correctly on those maternity samples, were compared with ones from the house, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And did you find any similar fibers? KYO: I found some fiber that's cotton. That's a pretty common one. So I generally said no. GERAGOS: You generally said no? KYO: What did I say here in the report? GERAGOS: You had written down that whitish and bluish color fibers were associated with the blouse, and that samples of the carpet samples from Laci's home were examined, a general color, that you did find some whitish and greenish fibers. You found some whitish fibers, and you found some carpet samples that consisted of orange fibers; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the -- on this particular day, did you also -- looks like there was some more evidence that was submitted to you; is that correct? Submitted to the lab on February 28th. KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, specifically you were given hair fiber from an umbrella, a pair of orange work gloves, red rope from a boat, camo jacket, hair fiber, yellow glove with blue dots, fiber from a paddle, vacuum debris from Scott Peterson's pickup bed, vacuum debris from Scott Peterson's pickup, tape, and vacuum debris from a boat; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, did you do a comparison of those items, or an examination of those items? KYO: Under this particular request -- these items were not under the Request Number 15. These items were not inventoried or examined. GERAGOS: The next request that you had was Number 20; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, Number 20 was the black -- or not the black -- the plastic twine that was around Conner's neck; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: When you observed this first, it had on it a knot in a bow; is that correct? When you first examined -- for instance, what was marked as 233 is that knot that was right there. Was that the observable? KYO: It was among the bow. So it's wrapped up underneath, you know, the bow. So I didn't see that particular knot. GERAGOS: That's what I was getting to. The knot itself was actually that's 253I. That knot was actually right in there; is that correct? In the picture marked as 253D, the bow on the twine that was around the baby's neck and shoulder had a knot underneath it; is that correct? What you described as a hard or a tight knot? Let me show you another picture, see if you can see it. See 253E? Isn't this the knot what you described as very tight knot, right there? KYO: There is a loose bow-like knot. But within that particular line string there is a tied knot. GERAGOS: That's what I'm asking you. Is the tight knot in this area here? Or is it on -- because I don't see it when you have got this out here. This is before you untied it? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: So before you untied this bow, you took a picture of it, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And before you untied the bow, you could not see this, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Once you untied the bow, what you saw untied -- this is the close-up. This is the length version, the one you untied it and, lo and behold, you have the tight knot, correct? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Now, that twine is approximately how long, do you know? KYO: The whole thing has about 50 -- let me refer to my note. GERAGOS: Sure. KYO: I believe -- I state in my note, I stated it's approximately 50 inches long twine. GERAGOS: And so that I understand 254D -- 254D, by the way, do you know when this was picked up? Look like 8-19? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: On August 19th; is that right? Now, this right here, how wide is that? KYO: That's approximately 17 inches. GERAGOS: Okay. And is this the area that you said that you -- that you kind of laid out? If I understand correctly, I thought you said you -- is that -- you took this particular spot right there, and that you separated that, and that that was 17 inches. KYO: This one here is one whole piece jumbled up. That particular piece I spread it out, and it is 17 inches. GERAGOS: Got it. Now, did you test -- did you do any testing on this here? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Did you test to see if there was -- if there was LMG test, either positive or negative, for blood? KYO: I just documented as a photograph. And that's the end of the examination for that particular piece. GERAGOS: Did anybody try to do anything with the glove that was here, or the glove that was here? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Now, the -- specifically the twine, as you saw it here, that also you found to be positive in the -- or found it on the internet to coincide with the packaging industry; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And also said the fishing industry; is that right? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the next thing that you got was -- well, did you do some spectrograph type testing on the plastic? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Do you have Sarah Yoshida do that? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Did you attach that to your report? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And did you examine what she did? KYO: I did not examine what she did. She was the expert, and she is qualified to do that kind of examination. So that's – GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: I just take her report and put it in my notes. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, is the evidence package that you were given, did you specifically -- the one that contained these items here -- I know you said you documented. I just want to make sure I understand correctly. Did you ever do any testing on these items whatsoever, other than the spectrograph testing for what it was? KYO: The particular item that I noted is the item, this item over here. When I spread it out, it has the same width as the one that's found on Conner's neck. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: So then that particular item was examined by Sarah Yoshido. GERAGOS: So when you say you spread it out, that's not the way -- at least the condition that you found either this item here, or the one that was around the baby's neck, correct? You found it as a twine, as opposed to that? KYO: In this -- in this photograph, that's how I found it when I take it apart from this whole mess of junk. GERAGOS: Okay. And what I'm asking you is, did anybody do any LMG test on any of these items? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you were also given a -- so I -- you were given a white glove also? Strike that. That didn't come back. The next item that you received in connection with this would have been -- you did a further test. That would have been item or Request Number 25; is that correct? This was in December of this last year. That was the steering wheel swab associated with Scott Peterson's pickup truck. KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And as we already discussed, that came back negative for blood; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And the next that you got was at some time Request Number 26. Number 26 also was December of 03; is that right? Do you have that one? Now, specifically that was the Ford pickup truck that was associated with Scott. You went through, and you -- also in December of 03 you were asked to examine the inside of the green toolbox on the bed of the pickup truck; is that correct? KYO: I examined the truck, the whole – GERAGOS: You examined the entire truck? KYO: Entire truck. GERAGOS: That truck, it was your understanding that truck had been in police custody at that point for almost exactly a year, correct? The car was -- if I told you the car was seized by search warrant on December 26th, when you examined it, it was December 14th of the following year, right? KYO: That's about right. GERAGOS: Okay. And the first thing you did was go through the entire car or entire truck? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And you went inside that green toolbox; is that right? KYO: I examined the green toolbox. GERAGOS: Did you make some markings -- did you do a photo with some markings for the toolbox? KYO: I took photographs of the green toolbox. GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have one of those? KYO: Can you give me a moment, let me go and look through it? GERAGOS: Now, when you examined the green toolbox, you had to remove a number of items from it; is that correct? You didn't, but somebody who was there did? KYO: We removed the items inside the green toolbox. GERAGOS: Okay. Was -- there were there quite a few items inside the toolbox? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And you removed all of those until you got it basically empty of anything that was in it; is that right? KYO: I just removed the items that is removable. Dirt, debris, just leave it in there. GERAGOS: Do you want to mark that is next in order? JUDGE: Well, we have 4 and 6 available. GERAGOS: Actually got six. Do you want it to be 4? I don't have a six. She's got – CLERK: Not yet. JUDGE: You are making it as 4. This is the toolbox analysis GERAGOS: I'm going to show you something. Did you -- by the way, was this box on this -- this is a different -- you have a different picture. Was that box in the toolbox when you saw it? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And going to mark this as D6M-6. JUDGE: All right. JUDGE: What's the -- photograph of the toolbox. GERAGOS: Yeah. It's a photograph of the back of the bed of the truck. JUDGE: Photo of the back of the bed of the truck. Okay. GERAGOS: So the toolbox has the box in it. The box is removed. And then you get what is viewed right here. These are yours, correct? KYO: This is my notes. GERAGOS: Right. Now, specifically you look all the way -- you notate where there was an upper compartment and lower compartment. Green toolbox. The stain on the floor. Stain here. Green toolbox with the red arrows pointing to various stains, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: All tested negative for blood, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Then you went around to the bed of the truck -- of the pickup, and specifically you were also looking for any tissue-like debris; is that correct? KYO: Blood or tissue-like debris. GERAGOS: Blood or tissue-like debris? KYO: Yes. Mainly for bloodstains. GERAGOS: Okay. And you detected no -- other than the swab on the -- that was taken from those -- the very small swab on the inside of the driver's side door, that was the only swab that you -- that area is the only area where there was any presumptive positive for blood, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You searched the rest of that entire truck, looking specifically for any other areas which could have some blood-like or tissue-like substance, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: There were a number of areas that you identified as being potential stains or blood-like substances; isn't that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have -- did you make some notes as to those areas that you tested? KYO: I did sketches. Do you want to take all this? GERAGOS: Let me just ask you if I, could approximately how many different areas did you look at -- did you test for blood? KYO: Approximately nine are GERAGOS: And all -- other than the inside door panel by the area where you have got like a pocket in the door, other than that, there was no presumptive positive for blood, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And there was absolutely no blood in the green toolbox, or in the bed of the truck, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You also -- you also looked for tissue. You did not observe any tissue-like debris inside the truck, correct? Middle of your second page of your report. Just one sentence. I did not observe any tissue-like debris inside the truck. KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. You also did a presumptive test for blood on the stain on the tailgate of the truck, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You did not detect any blood on the tailgate? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You did not observe blood-like stains on the exposed bed of the truck after you removed the green toolbox; is that right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: In the upper compartment of the toolbox, there were bottles, containers, plastic flags, tape, a tube, tools, paper, all in the upper toolbox, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Main compartment had boots, shoes, jumper cable, a pair of stained work gloves, a pair of pliers, a box labeled, "Tow Truck in a Box". And you took presumptive tests for blood -- for blood on some of these items, didn't you? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Specifically you performed a presumptive test for blood on the work gloves that were inside of the toolbox, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Came back negative. KYO: That's what I stated. GERAGOS: You also found a pliers inside of the toolbox, which you also tested for blood, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Came back negative. KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: And you also did not observe any other stains that looked like blood to you in the upper compartment; is that right? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Of the green toolbox. And then there were three areas that you got up here on the inside of the main compartment you tested. Those were all negative or blood; is that right? Is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Now, you also went, and after -- somebody removed the toolbox for you, correct? I'm looking at page three, the end of the second paragraph of your report. Toolbox was removed from the truck? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. After it was removed from the truck, you then looked at the front end of the truck, because at that point you couldn't get to it when the toolbox is there, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And you didn't observe any blood-like stains whatsoever on the front end of the truck, right? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You didn't observe any tissue-like debris on the truck bed, or inside of the toolbox at all, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Then at that point, you removed -- let's see you had -- somebody found a seven-inch-long brown hair in the floor, or on the floor of this toolbox; is that correct? Somewhere in there? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And who was that that located it? KYO: We -- I located it. GERAGOS: You located it? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: What did you do with that? KYO: I packaged it and collected it. GERAGOS: You collected it. And then at some point did they ask you to give a sample of your hair? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Then the next request that you were asked to do was a Request 21? Was it Request 21? JUDGE: If you are going to get into a new subject, it's five to, let's take the recess. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we're going to get into another part of this. We'll take the noon recess. Remember the admonition I have heretofore given you. We'll reconvene at 1. GERAGOS: Okay? JUDGE: All right. This is the case of People vs. Scott Peterson. Let the record show the defendant's present with counsel, and the jury is in the jury box, along with the alternates. And go ahead, Mr. Geragos. GERAGOS: Thank you, your Honor. Good afternoon. KYO: Good afternoon. GERAGOS: There was I believe another -- let's see, there was a test or an examination of the boat in this case, sometime also in December of 2003; is that correct? KYO: Let me get a different binder. GERAGOS: And I think -- it doesn't have a request number on it, though. HARRIS: Be request 33. GERAGOS: This one. KYO: Request 33. It's in different binder, so... GERAGOS: Okay. Now, this request was for you to go through the aluminum boat; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And when you went through the aluminum boat, excuse me for turning, but -- you have a picture there? Okay. KYO: Do you want to – GERAGOS: Yeah, I'm going to take a couple of these, if I could. KYO: Is it that one? GERAGOS: Let me see which one's best. Yeah, that's probably best. The jury has already seen the boat. You placed some items, some little stickers inside of the boat; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And the stickers specifically -- I'm going to ask the court to mark this next in order. JUDGE: That will be – GERAGOS: The same thing that I promised before, we'll make a color copy of this. JUDGE: Marilyn, I have defendant's 6 N; is that right? GERAGOS: 6 M. JUDGE: N. Like in – GERAGOS: I was going to do it sequentially, Judge. She's got it pre-done. JUDGE: Want to make it M 10? CLERK: Yeah. JUDGE: Or 11, I mean. We've got M 11. GERAGOS: 11. JUDGE: Want to make it M 11? GERAGOS: Yes. JUDGE: Okay. GERAGOS: Now, this is the interior of two shots of the boat itself; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And when you did this examination, was that in December of last year? Or January? KYO: It's on December 30th, 03. GERAGOS: Okay. And specifically what you were told is -- detective Skultety gave you some information; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And he told you that he thought that -- it was his theory that the boat had been used to -- to dispose of Laci Peterson in the Bay, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And he wanted you to take a look through and see if there were anything -- was anything in there, either blood or tissue or anything else, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And it was your understanding that the boat had been in police custody continuously since the time that they executed the search warrant on December 27th at the warehouse; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: So it had been there for a year, basically, in police custody when you got to take a look at it? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And when we went down and took a look at the view of the boat, we saw a bunch of little stickers here inside the boat. Did you place those there? KYO: Yes, I did. GERAGOS: And when you placed those there, is that because you saw something that looked like a stain or a discoloration or something of that sort? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And specifically how many of those did you test? KYO: There are quite a few, quite a lot. I don't know exact number, but... GERAGOS: Okay. You marked up, it looks like -- you took some -- some swabs, correct? Looks like one – KYO: I tested them, and I collected some of the stains. Because they are tested positive for presumptive test for blood. GERAGOS: Right. So you had five stains on the boat that tested positive in a presumptive test; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And then you did something later on on those five tests, correct? KYO: I just collected it. I didn't do any further, my part. GERAGOS: Somebody else do some species testing later on? KYO: No. GERAGOS: There was some testing – KYO: DNA testing was done on some of the stains. GERAGOS: And they didn't come back as anything related to humans; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And did anybody test them to see if it was fish blood? KYO: On this particular case we didn't. GERAGOS: Okay. The -- specifically the other items, the five stains -- so the five stains were eliminated. Then were the other stains that you had marked, those also came back -- the ones that didn't react positive and then later were negated, the other stains that were tested were negative on the presumptive test for blood; is that correct? KYO: I'm not understanding your question. Can you – GERAGOS: You had more than five stains that you had identified, it looks like to me, correct? KYO: There are several stains that I tested. Five of them come out positive for presumptive test for blood. GERAGOS: Right. The rest of them came back negative? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: The five that came out positive, they later did testing and it turned out it wasn't human blood? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. So out of all the stains that are marked there, even though five are initially positive, those came back negative after a further test was done, correct? Negative in the sense that it wasn't human blood? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And if rest of arrows that's up there, without going through every single one of them that you've identified here, those were -- other than the five that subsequently became negative for human blood, the rest were negative on the presumptive test? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you also looked for tissue; is that correct? KYO: I just looked for different debris. GERAGOS: Okay. You didn't find anything of any -- of any evidentiary value; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And then you measured the boat, basically; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And after you collected all of the swabs, you took these photographs, and then you measured and did all the dimensions; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And specifically the -- the tests that you did, or the collection that was done, did you vacuum the boat again at that point for debris? KYO: No. GERAGOS: You were told that the -- the boat had already been vacuumed by Modesto PD for debris prior to your examination, correct? KYO: That's my understanding. GERAGOS: Okay. That's what Detective Skultety told you? KYO: That's my understanding. GERAGOS: Okay. And, as far as you know, that there was nothing that was found inside of that boat either on the prior collection or on your examination that had any evidentiary value; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. Now, the -- you said there was several other requests, and I don't want to get into the ones that had nothing to do with this. Were there any other requests that we haven't talked about, other than the Polo socks we talked about, which wasn't yours; is that correct? And then this request is -- what's the number? KYO: 36. GERAGOS: And this specifically was what item? KYO: Item number 219 dash 82. GERAGOS: Okay. And that was a wire cutter; is that correct? KYO: It's a blue handled wire cutter. GERAGOS: Okay. And you were told to test -- and that KYO: once again, was Modesto PD's way of saying We collected this on February 19th. GERAGOS: So on the second search warrant they found another wire cutter, they gave that to you, had you test it, and it came back? KYO: No blood was detected. GERAGOS: Okay. Then the next one related to this case? That's one we've already done. We've already gone through that on there. No, that's the other. And that's related to that. So, no, that doesn't. The last thing that you tested was the -- of the TARGET products bag? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: You actually tested that twice; is that right? KYO: That’s right. This is the second testing. GERAGOS: Now, the first time that you tested that bag, you had no information, no information was given to you that it was related in any way to Laci Peterson's remains; is that correct? KYO: It was submitted together with all the other evidence. GERAGOS: Okay. The second time it was submitted was on what date? KYO: On August 4, 4th, 2004. GERAGOS: Okay. When it was submitted on August 4th, that was just last month; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And when it was submitted to you at that point, that was the testing you were talking about with Mr. Harris? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And specifically where Mr. Harris was asking you about the smell on the TARGET products bag, that was the examination that you did on August 4th of this year? KYO: The smell I had smelled before, but I didn't really note it, but this time I did. GERAGOS: Last time you tested it. When you examined it the first time -- the first time, that was when? KYO: That's I think request number 15, correct? GERAGOS: Yes. JUDGE: Ms. Kyo, let me ask you, because I'm not sure, the TARGET bag was submitted with a lot of this other evidence the very first time. As I understand it, you didn't examine it the first time? KYO: I examined the duct tape. JUDGE: The first time? KYO: The first time. JUDGE: Okay. GERAGOS: You say -- that's a great question. My understanding was, as well, that you examined the duct tape to compare it with the duct tape on the remains of Laci; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: And then – GERAGOS: The second time that it was submitted to you, which was last month, you examined the bag itself and did a visual examination of the bag itself? KYO: That's the request that I received, that's correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And that's when you made a notation in your report, in August of 2004, that there was no smell of decomposition? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. There was no -- the first time you examined it, the tape that was associated with the bag, you made no notation of the fact that there was no smell; is that correct? From where you – KYO: I did not noted the smells of the bag, but if I would smell something funny about that bag, I would have put in some notes on that. GERAGOS: Okay. You didn't write anything – KYO: No. GERAGOS: on there did you – KYO: No. GERAGOS: the first time? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Is it -- the first time, is it a fair statement that your focus was on the duct tape that was on the bag? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: The second time, last month, your focus was on the bag? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. And the -- specifically the TARGET products plastic bag, when you examined it the second time, the -- the report that you prepared was dated August 17th, just a couple of weeks ago; is that correct? KYO: I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? GERAGOS: The report that you prepared, which I show as request number 44. KYO: Uh-huh. GERAGOS: That was prepared on August 17th of this year, just a couple of weeks ago? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And, specifically, the bag you examined was the one that was put up this morning, this bag? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And when you examined it in -- a couple of weeks ago, what you found were that duct tape that's there, that's in the picture, that was also on the bag; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And the duct tape appeared to you to have residue, green, light gray stains that looked like the duct tape had been placed on the bag and, when the tape was removed, that the printing that we see there, the TARGET printing, had come off partially on the adhesive? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Thank you. I have no further questions.
Redirect Examination by David Harris JUDGE: Any redirect, Mr. Harris? HARRIS: Yes. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, if you could look at your report number 15, you were asked if you were looking at just the -- concentrating on the duct tape associated with that TARGET bag that we're looking at right there. Did you indicate in your notes that you did notice that there was a transfer of the blue ink from the bag to the duct tape? I'll help you out. Go to page 15 -- 16 of your notes. KYO: Yes, I noted in my note on when I was examining the first time of this TARGET product plastic bag with the duct tape, that I -- I observe blue paint and adhesive transfer between the plastic and the duct tape. HARRIS: And going to page 21 of your notes in the same report, when you were looking at some of these -- looking at the 1 dash 10, the other piece of duct tape associated with this particular item, did you indicate in your notes, and also photograph, that there were other things associated with the bag, such as shells, white foam, belly of an insect, seaweed? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: So as part of this documentation process, with this bag, way back when you first did this, you went through that same generalized process of looking at everything? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So you may not have been looking or doing a specific request to look at the bag for a particular reason, but you still went through the process of documenting it and photographing it as you've described to us repeatedly? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Okay. Now, I want to go back to your report number 26. Counsel was showing you a photograph of a cardboard box that was in the photograph in the back of the defendant's truck bed. I'll try to find that again. JUDGE: That's 6. 6 M 6. HARRIS: Is it in this pile? HARRIS: Now, that particular box -- while I'm looking for that, the one that we're talking about, is counsel -- it was in the back of the pickup truck, pickup truck bed, and counsel asked you if it was in that green box, I believe. I wasn't clear about that, that's why I want to go back and talk to you about that. Did you document through photographs, when you processed the truck, in report number 26, what was in that green toolbox in the back? KYO: I did. HARRIS: And did you also photograph, even before you got into the truck, what was in the truck bed itself? KYO: I did. HARRIS: And looking at page 15 of your notes, do you have a photograph that shows that cardboard box? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And where does it show -- when you first observed that cardboard box, where did you first observe it? KYO: It's observed on the truck bed next to the green toolbox. HARRIS: Okay. When you say "next to," was it inside of the toolbox? KYO: No. It's outside the toolbox. It's in the truck bed. HARRIS: Now, as part of the process, again, of going through and documenting what we're talking about with that particular truck, did you also write in your notes kind of an inventory list of all of the items that were in that toolbox? KYO: Yes, I did. And I also photographed item they're taking out of the toolbox. HARRIS: And do you have -- I guess just to speed it up, do you have a particular page that shows a photograph of all of the items that you removed? I believe it's either page 47 or page 51. KYO: It's -- it's on page 47 I have a photograph of items inside the toolbox. And on page 51 I have items that I remove from the toolbox. HARRIS: The ones on page 47 is when you're looking into the toolbox? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: As you first observed it? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: What I'd like to do is if I can do the same thing counsel's doing. JUDGE: Sure. HARRIS: Take page 47. JUDGE: Mark it as 255? HARRIS: Yes, please. JUDGE: All right. 255 will be the contents of the toolbox from the pickup truck. HARRIS: And these, again, just for the record, these are photographs that I'm getting from your folder that you took? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And they accurately depict the toolbox that we're talking about? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: So this particular toolbox here, so we see these notes here again, we start at the top where we have your case information, on these pages. Is that page 47 of your notes, your case information, your date and your initials? KYO: That is correct. HARRIS: And as you've documented it, you start with opening the lid of the toolbox? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And you described in the middle photograph that there's a lid of the green toolbox and items in the upper compartment? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: And that's this photograph here in the middle? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then you took a photograph looking down into the toolbox? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So when you were asked about the numerous items that were in the toolbox, this is a photograph of those numerous items as you observed it? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: And looking at this particular photograph here, the bottom of this item, do we see in the top of this photograph that upper tray that is in the middle photograph as well? KYO: I'm sorry? What you say? HARRIS: Let me try that one again. In the bottom photograph on this particular exhibit, do you see across the top of the photograph some items? Is that the items that's in the upper tray compartment that's in the middle photograph as well? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: So when those items are inside the toolbox, they're actually not down at the bottom of the toolbox? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: Now, going to your report number 25, just kind of doing this in reverse order, you were asked about item 1 F. KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And that item 1 F was one of the swabs that Detective Hendee had submitted originally that you had originally tested from the pickup truck, but for some reason it did not get tested during that first request? KYO: I believe that's what happened. GERAGOS: What Bates number or report are you on? HARRIS: Without the notes would be 33761. GERAGOS: 33761. HARRIS: Or, with the notes, 33618. HARRIS: And counsel asked you about this. This was tested at a later date and this was negative? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: I want to go back to – KYO: Actually, could I correct that? Item 1 F was originally tested the first time around, but I did not put it in the report. HARRIS: So you had to write a subsequent report – KYO: That's right. HARRIS: to document? Okay. Going to your request number 21. Now, you were asked about this bag of all these different items that have been described, and just to go through this, the information that you have of where these particular items come from, that would usually come from the packaging? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So it's documented by however an officer or a detective writes something down, and that's how you document things in your report? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And as you open these things up, if there was something that attracted your attention, either visually or you touch it or you smell it, would you document that in your report? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And looking at your page 11, did you indicate if there was anything in terms of a smell with this particular item? JUDGE: What item are you talking about? You identified it but didn't tell us what it was. KYO: I -- on the page 11 of the -- my notes for request number 21. JUDGE: What is number 21? What is the item? KYO: That is the item number 819 dash 30, plastic -- JUDGE: What is it? KYO: It's a plastic and other debris from Point Isabel. JUDGE: Okay. All right. HARRIS: So that's that big pile of stuff that you had to go through and dissect? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And did it smell like something to you? KYO: I noted that it has like a ocean-like smell. HARRIS: Okay. You were also asked, going back to your request number 4 -- if I'm jumping too fast on the requests, just let me know. KYO: Okay. HARRIS: You were asked by counsel about the blue tarp and the comparisons with the blue in the Dirt Devil in that particular request. The blue tarp, I want to go through and make sure that we're clear about this. That particular blue tarp, that was ID or exhibit number, whatever the assigned number for the lab there was, of P O dash 1? KYO: Okay. HARRIS: Is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: Okay. KYO: That's the blue tarp from the Bay. HARRIS: And that particular tarp was not the same tarp that we've seen in the other photographs that was recovered from the defendant's house? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So when we're talking about that, we're not talking about the same tarp? KYO: The photograph Mr. Geragos shown on the screen is different blue tarp from the -- the item P O dash 1. HARRIS: Now, that particular tarp, did -- was it a new tarp? KYO: It's -- it's a seem to be a lot of wear and tear and peels on that blue tarp. HARRIS: And did you describe that as basically being one dried old blue tarp with peels and unravels? KYO: Is it my note? Or is it... HARRIS: If you look at page 13. KYO: Uh-huh. HARRIS: About the fourth line down. KYO: Okay. Yes. I stated that it's a one dried old blue tarp with blue plastic peels and unravels, weaves. HARRIS: And there was one other thing that you were asked, and I just want to make sure that we're clear about that. Now, you did the Dirt Devil vacuuming that you described for us when we had all the pictures up there. That was item 27 and subparts as you opened it up and you described for us yesterday about giving the different numbers. Now, there was a separate vacuuming, which is item number 14. That was something different than what you were describing for us yesterday? KYO: Item number 14 is a separate item. It's vacuum debris from the living room and the laundry room. HARRIS: So that was some vacuuming in a smaller container that you received from the police department? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: It was not -- so again, not to be confused, it wasn't the vacuum or the bag inside of the vacuum? KYO: No, it's a separate vacuum debris. HARRIS: So when counsel was asking you about something and there was a description about one live flea, is that from that vacuuming? Or from the vacuum cleaner bag? KYO: I didn't catch... HARRIS: When counsel with was asking you the question about going through a list of the different items, including one live flea, was that from item 14 or item 27? KYO: Let me review the note. HARRIS: If it would help, I can refer you to your summary on page one of two. JUDGE: Well, I'll let you -- I'll let you lead her. HARRIS: Okay. JUDGE: Just to get this -- go ahead. HARRIS: Going through this, looking at your summary, does it say that hairs, fibers, piece of grass, dried leaves, red confetti-like material, one live flea, dirt debris observed in the vacuum debris, collected off the living room floor and the laundry? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And that's item No. 14? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: All right. Now, going back to a couple of these things, counsel showed you a number of photographs of the pocket knife, the Simple Green containers, the clothing. Anything that had a stain on it, did you test it to see if those stains could possibly be blood? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: Regardless of where those stains were, that's just kind of the standard practice? KYO: That's right. HARRIS: And last, the item that we were talking about, 1 dash 5, which is the duct tape that came from Laci's body, when you were done going through and doing your trace evidence examination, did you submit that off to be fingerprinted? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: And then after that to go off to DNA to be DNA tested? KYO: Yes. It was -- it was -- DNA tests was done on the duct tape. HARRIS: And was that done back at the Ripon lab by Mr. Hudlow? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: The People have no other questions.
Recross Examination by Mark Geragos JUDGE: Mr. Geragos, any re-cross? GERAGOS: Yes, just briefly. GERAGOS: The -- do you have in your report number -- request number 25, can you pull out page 46 and page 45? KYO: Number 26? GERAGOS: Yes. KYO: Which page is that? GERAGOS: 45 and 46. KYO: (Pages handed to Mr. Geragos) GERAGOS: Now, page 45 and 46 are pictures you took; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. JUDGE: Mr. Geragos – GERAGOS: Now, I'm going to show you what's been previously marked as People's Exhibit 116 This is a picture that's been testified to was taken of my client's truck on the date of the search warrant back in December of 2002, okay? Do you see the -- the rain gauge box in there? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Where? Oh, the Greenlee box. The Greenlee box. KYO: The Green, right. GERAGOS: Okay. I'm going to show you the picture on your page 45. Where does that box right there come from? KYO: I wouldn't know. It was – GERAGOS: Somebody – KYO: in the truck. GERAGOS: Yeah, it was in the truck. And then the next picture you took, page 46, it's not in the truck. Is that because somebody took that box out of the green toolbox, put it into the bed, you then photographed it, and then they took it away because that box -- the cardboard box was inside of the toolbox? Isn't that how -- how it got there? You didn't -- certainly didn't bring the cardboard box and put it in the bed of the truck when you first started taking pictures on page 45, did you? JUDGE: Mr. Geragos, that's two questions. GERAGOS: Okay. You didn't bring the box there, correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Okay. Did you see where the box came from? KYO: In my original photograph, if you look at page number 15. GERAGOS: Do you have page 15 there? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. And when you arrived, that's how it looked, isn't it? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Page 15. The box was there, the toolbox was there; and on the day that the search warrant was executed, there was no box in the back, correct? KYO: That's what that particular photograph shows. GERAGOS: Right. And that's on 12/26. When you arrive there was a box in the back. When you arrived the police were already there, correct? KYO: They brought this particular truck to our facility. GERAGOS: Okay. And then you take this picture, and you take this picture with the boxes. And I should probably mark these for the record, your Honor. JUDGE: Yes. I think so. GERAGOS: And then the last picture where there's no box, correct? KYO: Right. GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: That's -- the last picture is when we remove the item from the bed -- the box was removed. GERAGOS: The box was removed. And so somebody drove that truck there. And when you first saw it, there was a box in the back, correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. I'm going to -- if I could, Judge, her page 15, her page 45 and her page 46. JUDGE: You've got three? GERAGOS: D 6 M 12. Want to just do it as – JUDGE: 12 A, B and C? 12 A, B and C. 6 M 12 A, B and C. These are photos of the bed of the truck showing the cardboard box, and one no cardboard box. GERAGOS: Then the other – KYO: Could I add something to that? GERAGOS: Sure. KYO: Okay. In the particular photograph what I'm seeing -- I'm not seeing one corner of the truck, so I'm not sure -- I'm not seeing that box on that particular photograph. GERAGOS: Let me show you from the other angle. And I'll mark this as next in order. JUDGE: 13. GERAGOS: Do you see it in this one? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Okay. So does that settle that? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Thank you. I would like to mark this as next in order. JUDGE: It's 13. KYO: Thank you. GERAGOS: You're welcome. Thank you. GERAGOS: The other area I was going to ask you was on the...could I have just one moment, your Honor? JUDGE: Yeah. GERAGOS: You had indicated -- Mr. Harris just asked you, your request number 44, do you have that? KYO: Yes. GERAGOS: Okay. Page four of your notes. KYO: Page four. GERAGOS: The -- the inspection of the -- this is the inspection of the TARGET products bag; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: And in there on the first line you say there was shrimp-like crustaceans on the bag; is that correct? KYO: That’s right. GERAGOS: Okay. And then -- then it says: Debris fallen off of the tarp. Is that what we were talking about before where you put a white butcher block out paper and then there's debris that falls off? Or did you just observe it on the tarp itself? KYO: That's what I observed from the debris that fall off from the -- GERAGOS: Okay. KYO: TARGET bag. GERAGOS: And then specifically on page 21, did you make a notation that you found on there also some short, fine hairs? KYO: Page 21. GERAGOS: Of your notes. Is that – KYO: Off my notes is for – GERAGOS: Is that item one ten? KYO: For item number 1 dash 5. GERAGOS: 1 dash 5. Which is what? KYO: The duct tape from the victim body. GERAGOS: Is that right? One ten? Page 21? KYO: This is page 21. Page 28. This is a previous -- you showing me a previous examination notes, and this is – GERAGOS: Well, I'm referring to this right here. KYO: Okay. GERAGOS: It says – KYO: Okay, page 28. GERAGOS: Does that say item 1 dash 10, which you know to be what? This is item 1 dash 10. So the jury knows, that's the duct tape; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: That's the duct tape from the TARGET bag; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: And on that duct tape there were short, fine hairs; is that correct? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: Thank you. I have no further – JUDGE: That's the duct tape from the TARGET – GERAGOS: From the TARGET -- KYO: Wait. This is the debris that fallen off from the bag, the TARGET bag. And that one is packaged away. So when I examining second time around, I'm not looking at that particular debris. GERAGOS: Okay. And what I'm asking you is on the duct tape, when you examined it, you saw that there were hairs on there; is that correct? Short, fine hairs? KYO: This is not on the duct tape. GERAGOS: What is it on? KYO: This is on the TARGET bag. GERAGOS: On the TARGET bag itself there is short, fine hairs? KYO: That’s correct. GERAGOS: That's correct. And did you save those hairs? KYO: That would be in that particular item with -- together with the TARGET bag. GERGAOS: And that's what I'm asking. Did you save that as trace evidence? KYO: No, I didn't. GERAGOS: What did you do with that? KYO: It's still in the item. Together with the item. GERAGOS: Okay. Thank you. I have nothing further.
2nd redirect Examination by David Harris JUDGE: Any re-redirect? HARRIS: Yes, just on that particular point. Just to clear something up. HARRIS: Ms. Kyo, just so that we're clear about that, that last particular request, number 44, did you include all of your notes from the previous requests when you previously looked at the TARGET bag, which is your request number 15? KYO: On this particular... HARRIS: On request number 44, do you have your -- did you attach notes from your previous examination? KYO: Yes, I did. HARRIS: Okay. So when we're talking about the notes on there, can you go back to the page that you were just showing to counsel? Okay. What I want to do is just clear -- clear this up. This particular page which we're looking at right there, which has at the top right corner "page 21" and then directly underneath there, is there a box that's written beneath that? KYO: Yes. HARRIS: And what's written in that box? KYO: That is a particular date and page number associated with the request number 44. HARRIS: Okay. So when we're -- we're looking at that particular page, that was page 21 of the original request? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: And then you wrote the little box, kind of green box there, wrote some information, and that's page 28 of the new request? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So those two photographs there of the TARGET bag and the duct tape associated with the TARGET bag, 1-10, those are the photographs and the notes from the original request back in May? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: So when you're talking about the items that -- the things that are there, those are the things that you observed and documented and recovered as part of your examination back in May? KYO: That’s correct. HARRIS: The People have no other questions.
2nd Recross Examination by Mark Geragos JUDGE: Anything about -- GERAGOS: That was May of 2003, right? KYO: That's correct. GERAGOS: And it was never -- as far as you know it was never tested, the hairs nor anything else? They were never tested? They weren't -- KYO: No. GERAGOS: sent to Rod Oswalt? KYO: No. GERAGOS: Thank you. Can I have just one moment? JUDGE: Yes. GERAGOS: I have no further questions. JUDGE: Can Miss Kyo be excused, subject to recall? GERAGOS: Yes. HARRIS: No objection. JUDGE: Ms. Kyo, thank you very much for your time. |