Joseph Peterson

Witness for the Defendant:  Penalty Phase

December 3, 2004

Direct Examination by Pat Harris

HARRIS: Good morning, Joe.

PETERSON: Hi, Pat.

HARRIS: As you are aware, this week we have been going through your family in some depth. I'm going to ask you this morning to sort of just, some of this will be obviously reiteration, just go through and sum up everything. We're going to move on next week to Scott's life after he moves away. I'm going to just ask to kind of go through everything and sum it up for us, if you would, his life this morning, what your knowledge of it is.

PETERSON: Okay.

HARRIS: I want to start with the background. Obviously we all know that you were a son of Lee, is that correct?

PETERSON: Correct.

HARRIS: And your mother is not Jackie?

PETERSON: Uh-huh. Stepmother. Stepmother.

HARRIS: Who is your mother?

PETERSON: Mary. Mary is my real mother.

HARRIS: And Lee and Mary actually divorced when you were what age?

PETERSON: Seven, eight years old.

HARRIS: If you would, I'm just about to take you through a little bit about your father, and talk about Lee and first. I would just like to ask you what you can tell us about Lee as a father.

PETERSON: My father is and has been a role model to me, just by his actions, how he went to work every day, how he always had us with him, how he took care of us. When my parents divorced, he stayed close. He lived nearby, and there wasn't a day that went by we didn't see him. He was just, he was a father that was always there. And that made the divorce less difficult.

HARRIS: Did he instill certain values in you? Did he work to instill certain values?

PETERSON: Yeah. We did everything together as a family growing up. We went to his business. Before he opened his business and he worked as a terminal manager or trucking manager, we would go with him on the weekends.

HARRIS: What kinds things would you do on the weekends?

PETERSON: We would, we got paid for cleaning. We would clean the bathrooms, sweep the warehouse. We check all the trucks. Check all the blinkers and indicators and lights, and check the mileage on the trucks. We would go through each one.

JUDGE: When you say we, you are including Scott?

PETERSON: Yeah. All of us. All four of us kids and my dad. And dad would get the notebook out, take the notes as we would jump into each truck and holler out what's working, what's not working. So we cleaned the place on Saturday so it would be ready for Monday morning.

HARRIS: Would you say you saw the strong work ethic in him?

PETERSON: Definitely. We didn't go for lunch or get ice cream, or do anything until we were, until we were done with the day's work, yeah.

HARRIS: Did Lee also teach you the value of a dollar?

PETERSON: Definitely. Yeah. That's, when we worked as children, that's how we were going to buy Christmas presents and birthday presents for siblings and friends. They didn't give us the money to do that. We earned it, and did it that way.

HARRIS: As a husband to Jackie first, want to talk about your mother. But first I want to talk about Jackie. As a husband to Jackie, what did you see?

PETERSON: A lot of warmth, a lot of love, a stable environment, a stable home. She was a lot like dad, that she would take us, all the kids under her wing, and we would be with them. We did family things together. We weren't separated. And that was definitely a part of their marriage, and the marriage that they have. And we could see that as kids, was, also taught us about relationships and how a couple should be.

HARRIS: How about as a businessman? How was he as a businessman?

JUDGE: Excuse me. Talking about Lee?

HARRIS: Lee.

HARRIS: How was Lee as a businessman?

PETERSON: No nonsense. Straightforward. He'll tell you what he thinks is right, what he thinks is wrong. Pinches the pennies and makes you accountable. Made us accountable as long as I worked for him, and all the employees.

HARRIS: You worked for him for how long?

PETERSON: I guess I would have to say, probably 20 years old, full time, so 20 years.

HARRIS: I mentioned I would ask you about his relationship with your mother. What was that the like?

PETERSON: It's a great relationship. My mom is everything to me. She is a lot like dad. She would be, she's the type of mother that would have our lunches made in the morning. Gets us out of bed. Make us have us make our beds, clean up, do everything before school. Have our plan for the day, what we were going to do after school. And she would work every day. She would never, she never missed a day of work. Never saw her sick. Just a very strong work ethic. And that reminds me of my dad also.

HARRIS: That was instilled in you as well?

PETERSON: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: How is the relationship between Lee and your mother now?

PETERSON: It's fine. It's fine. It always has been fine. Like I said, through a divorce, for us kids, they kept it low keyed, I guess, if you can keep a low key divorce. There wasn't any arguing or struggles in that relationship that spilled over into, you know, into us kids. No, I know today they see each other on occasions. They hug. And there is definitely a bond there.

HARRIS: I want to ask you next about Jackie. She's your stepmother, obviously, so tell me a little bit about how she is, has been as a stepmother to you.

PETERSON: How far back do you want me to go?

HARRIS: From the time you met.

PETERSON: I can remember at a young age, eight, ten years old, of being cared for by Jackie, and being buckled up in a car by Jackie. Of having put on an extra jacket. It's cold outside. Lots of the same characteristics as would you get from my real mother. And Jackie always gave us kids that warmth and that security of what we needed.

HARRIS: When they were married, you were about what age, nine, ten something like that?

PETERSON: Yeah. I would say nine, ten years old.

HARRIS: Were you nervous about your father getting married?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah, I was. I didn't know. I was nervous in how it would affect you know me. If we were going to move, or they were going to, I don't know. Family dynamics, whether we were going to be split up. That went through my mind.

HARRIS: Before you got, before they actually married, had you been excited to see her when she would come over?

PETERSON: Yeah. She was driving this little convertible, a red convertible. And we had gone to some picnics with dad and Jackie, and some outings. And she would come by because she knew where he lived. I think she was going to a college nearby, and she would come by and take a look, see if we were around there. And, yeah, we definitely, definitely got excited when we saw her driving up.

HARRIS: Once they got a married, once things had settled in, she had a son she brought with her John?

PETERSON: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: Once things settled in, did she treat you and Susan and Mark any differently than she treated John?

PETERSON: No. No, we were all given equal treatment or attention. Yeah, there was never a, there was never any struggles in those relationships as far as the siblings went. We were all cared for and provided for equally.

HARRIS: How about what you have observed Jackie as a wife to Lee? How has she been?

PETERSON: They have been solid. They have been inseparable. They have been, like I said before, they have been a couple that you could admire through thick and thin. And that's what they have shown us.

HARRIS: Was your life, I think we have heard some testimony that your life was essentially split between the two homes?

PETERSON: Yes, that's true.

HARRIS: So it was hectic?

PETERSON: I guess, yeah, I mean at times it can be, you know. Parents want the kids on holidays at their home and, you know, that the, bit of that goes back and forth, planning, and things like that. As we got, makes me think of those, we got older, we were driving, we would, you know, hop back and forth. But when we weren't driving, we weren't are of age to drive, dad or Jackie, they would come pick us up. We would spent the weekend, the whole weekend at their home, and take us back to my mom's house Sunday night. And then they would come get us like on Wednesday or Thursday morning for a breakfast before school, and whatever evening events we had as school kids, we would see them. We would see them during the week. And in the summer it was, those were the best of times. Those were, because we could spend a week with them, a week home, and we spend more time with them and doing all the family activities.

HARRIS: No matter where you were, and no matter how hectic it was, was there always a lot of love in the home?

PETERSON: Yes, always. Yes.

HARRIS: Now, we met your wife yesterday. She testified. That's Janey?

PETERSON: Uh-huh. That's my wife.

HARRIS: How long have you been married?

PETERSON: 17 years.

HARRIS: How did you meet?

PETERSON: Met her at college. We were taking a volleyball class, an evening volleyball class, and I met her there.

HARRIS: And have you had children?

PETERSON: I have three children.

HARRIS: What are their names?

PETERSON: My oldest is Brittany. She is 17. And Zachary is 15. And Jacob is 13.

HARRIS: What do you remember most about Scott being born?

PETERSON: I remember knowing that Jackie was pregnant. I remember the talk around the house, that there is going to be a baby, you know, in our family. And I remember preparing for that. Bringing boxes home, and strollers, and carriers, and blankets, and getting things ready. It was very exciting. That's all we talked about, two months, leading up to it. I remember dad coming to pick us up, bringing us over to the hospital that day. I remember getting out of the car and running down the sidewalk. And it was one of these nurseries that was on the outside of the building. And so we were looking through, looking for Scott. And I remember some, probably dad saying, that's him. That's the one. That's your baby brother. I said that's him. He's ours. He's mine. It's our baby brother. And I was turning to look at people around me to tell that he was mine, or ours.

HARRIS: Were you, as Scott grew up, were you encouraged to help in raising him?

PETERSON: We all were. We, that was a big part of the closeness that we had. We were all involved in getting Scott ready, taking care of him, making sure he wasn't getting in anything, as toddlers do. We were responsible for him, yeah. Our dad and Jackie gave us a lot of responsibility in raising him and watching him.

HARRIS: I'm going to ask you about, I know you have had the chance to witness these, your brothers and sisters and their relationships with Scott. So, if you would, tell us a little bit about Susan's relationship, is I'll ask you about a couple of them. Tell me about Susan's relationship.

PETERSON: Susan is the oldest. Oldest sister. And, you know, she lays down the law. She was the demanding of us. She, whatever was going on, we would take direction from her, and we would looked up to the her. We looked up to her, would listen to her. She has a motherly quality, you know, back then, that she has now. And it was very good relationship.

HARRIS: How was her relationship with Scott?

PETERSON: She, Scott was her baby. There has been times that, you know, within the family that Susan fought Jackie for Scott, to bathe him and take care of him. And she took Scott, you know, as her own, and wanted that responsibility. So she was driving at the time, so she could strap him in and take him to the store. And it was an, I think it was just a great learning experience for her, growing up.

HARRIS: How about John? I know you weren't living with Scott and John fulltime. But what did you see in the relationship, that brother relationship, sibling relationship between John and Scott?

PETERSON: John is a carefree prankster, always smiling, always laughing. And I'm sure a lot of that spilled over into Scott, because John is so laid back. I saw a lot of that. I saw a lot of John playing with his younger brother and teasing him, and dressing him up, and like a doll, or something. And just all the brotherly things that go on.

HARRIS: When you married Janey, she obviously became Scott's sister-in-law. Did they have an unusually, and still do have an unusually close relationship?

PETERSON: Yeah. They did right away, and they do today.

HARRIS: What was the sort of connection that you saw?

PETERSON: They are both very open people. They are both very warm. And they both have inviting personalities. And there was just an instant connection with my younger brother with my wife.

HARRIS: You actually, your own relationship with Scott, you are actually the one who taught him to play baseball, weren't you?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: How did you do that?

PETERSON: Take him out to the front yard and start out with a couple of gloves, and maybe a tennis ball, so I could throw it harder at him. And, you know, didn't want to hurt him, so we would start off with a tennis ball, just do some, toss it back and forth. We worked our way up. Then he would take a bat, and he would hit the tennis ball. Because if he hit it hard, I didn't want to get hurt by the hardball. And we would spend hours out in the front yard of the cul-de-sac throwing it back and forth, pitching to him. I hit him a few times. When we moved up to the hardball I would throw it so hard, I would clock him, you know, a couple of times. And he would get up and shake it off and go back to it. Kind of a kid he was. If you were going to go hang with the older brothers, you had to show us that you were going to stick with it and keep trying.

HARRIS: Show you a picture. As an older brother, you tease him, you didn't teach him to play football?

PETERSON: Did not. He bugs me to this day that I didn't teach him to throw a football the right way.

HARRIS: Is that Scott? That is Scott?

PETERSON: That's Scott, yeah.

HARRIS: How old was he there?

PETERSON: I'd say probably three.

HARRIS: That is D9L-5, your Honor.

JUDGE: Got it.

HARRIS: Did you also have the chance, as you were growing up and working, to pick him up at school, those kind of things?

PETERSON: Yeah, I did all of that.

HARRIS: What would you do when you picked him up at school?

PETERSON: I picked him up, and we would hit a 7-11, something like that, get a Slurpy or a snack. And then I was told to bring him back to the family business, or to take him home, or sometimes to a golf course.

HARRIS: Were you happy to do that?

PETERSON: Yeah, definitely. I looked forward to it.

HARRIS: You mentioned he was kind of a tag-along little brother.

PETERSON: Uh-huh.

HARRIS: You nicknamed him Trooper. Why?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: Why?

PETERSON: Trooper just fit. It fit what he was doing. Reminded us, me and my other brothers of a military, you know, get there with the pack and do what we are doing, and hold your own. And if we're going to go play sports in the street, or if we're going to go hike, or build a fort, if he wanted to be with us, he was going to work at it. And he did so well at it, that I just came up with the name of Trooper.

HARRIS: Were you also a little prone to teasing?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: Is that a Peterson family trait,

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: as well. What kind of things would you do to him?

PETERSON: When we would go play tennis, we would, me and my older brother Mark would imitate professional tennis players, and we would come up with these outrageous serves, try to hit the ball a hundred twenty miles an hour. We put Scott on the other side of the Court as a target. Put the racket up. He put the racket up in front of his face in kind of a defense mode, and we would, you know, take shots at him.

HARRIS: Did you also, we have heard, obviously we have heard a lot during this week about golf, you with him, as he grew up on the golf course. Did he also try and keep up with you on the golf course at a young age?

PETERSON: Yeah. We made him keep up with us. We would, we're hitting the ball a 150 or 200 yards. And he was hitting it 10 or 15 yards, so we make him hit it and run between shots to keep up with us. And he would hit it, and just say, run, Scott run to your next ball. We'll meet you at the green. And that was also big in the Trooper nickname that we came up with.

HARRIS: Did he, you enjoyed cars. One your hobbies was dealing with cars?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: Did he like to talk with you about that, work with you on that?

PETERSON: Yeah. As I bought my first car when I was 16 or 17, and he was excited about it. He wanted to go for a ride in it. He was interested in every detail about the car, the motor, how big it was, was I going to fix it up. He would show me pictures of other cars and ask me if I would put nice rims on the car. He would should me pictures of steering wheels that he thought would be a good idea to put on the car. And he always had cars around the house that we looked at. And we shared that. And that as we grew, you know, that was one of the things, as he got to that age of driving and cars, that we have always had a subject to talk about.

HARRIS: What did he end up driving when got old enough to drive? He had a pickup truck?

PETERSON: He had an old gray, just a gray, beat up pickup truck. You know. My kids would call it the farm truck. Just an old ratty truck.

HARRIS: Did you also, when the family was kind of getting together, did you include him, try to include him in things like football-watching-parties, Monday Night Football?

PETERSON: That was part of what we did. We're a big sports family. And on Monday nights, we would go to Grandpa Peterson's house. And I guess I would have to have been maybe between I think I was 16, 17. Scott's nine years younger than I am. And we would gather there for Monday Night Football, have a bunch of food around watching the game, and dad always would bring Scott. And Scott would have a backpack full of books to do home work, and we would razz him. We would tease him, and say this is Monday Night Football. You can't study here. You know. Throw those books outside.

4 And we called him the Rookie. And we called Rookie Mistake, because he would bring his books to a football game. We always had Frisbees, every kind of ball you could think of. Baseball equipment. Everywhere we went, we just, you know, picnics and things, take it out of the car. And that was a big part of what we did.

HARRIS: One of those things included fishing, right?

PETERSON: Uh-huh, yes.

HARRIS: You and one of the, I believe you told me that one of the things that sort of cemented your relationship was that you and Scott liked to go fishing together?

PETERSON: Yeah. All our life.

HARRIS: You continue to do that up until recently?

PETERSON: Yeah, Uh-huh.

HARRIS: You would go several times a year?

PETERSON: Three or four times a year. And when we were both, he was there San Diego, and I was old enough to drive, I would go pick him up. We would go to a couple of local lakes and fish those lakes. As we got older, we kept that routine going. Even if he moved away, we would meet, and we would meet at a lake in Northern California, or we would pick spots, you know, mostly up in Mammoth Lakes to meet up and go fishing.

HARRIS: Did he start fishing at an early age?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. I would say five years old when he started.

JUDGE: What's that number?

HARRIS: I'm sorry that is D9L-1.

HARRIS: How old is he there, do you think? How old?

PETERSON: I'd say probably three or four. He always loved being around the water, being on the shoreline. Just loved it. All the way from getting toy fishing poles at a young age. He liked fishing more than we did. He was the initiator in getting the parents to take us, or me to come and get him and take him.

HARRIS: Was, when you would go fishing with him, as he got older, was he sort of an unconventional fisherman?

PETERSON: Yeah. He would try new things around whatever lake or stream we were at. He would bring lots of different lures, lot of different setups. He would bring a fly rod, I think that's what you call a fly rod. And he would, we would all be fishing from the shore, and he would wade out further, and would try flycasting.

HARRIS: This was also something, fishing was also something I believe you told me that he did a lot with his mother, that was an activity that they liked to do together?

PETERSON: Parents, both dad and Jackie would take him, and they would kick back and read the paper, drink coffee at the lake. And he would, like I said he just wanted, like I said, just wanted to be down at the water, and wanted to be, he wanted to be fishing.

HARRIS: Another Peterson tradition is hunting, is that right?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: And you do that couple times a year?

PETERSON: Yeah. I'd say twice a year.

HARRIS: When he was young, how did you start him off on these trips, hunting trips?

PETERSON: Before you could get a license, like we all did, when we were below twelve-years-of-age, we would go with dad and my grandfather, and we would be the bird dog. We would wear a vest, and we would carry the birds we were picking up in the vest. We haul the water around. We would keep track of whatever dog we had at the time. So, you know, hunter's helper, I guess you could say how we started out. That's how Scott started out too.

HARRIS: Did you eventually end up taking a trip hunting trips even as far away as Alaska?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: How did you, why did you go specifically to Alaska?

PETERSON: Jackie's brother John is a guide and outfitter in Alaska. He invited us all, invited us up to go. And we, I believe we went on two occasions, Thanksgiving time, to go duck hunting up there. And that was, I remember, one of the trips specifically, because everybody went except Susan. Jackie was there. And we stayed at John's lodge right on the bay, and spent Thanksgiving there. Probably hunted like five days when we were up there.

HARRIS: Was he more of a, just ask you. Were these kind of bonding experiences for the family?

PETERSON: Yeah. We, the boys had, we had our own room. We had the lower floor of this lodge. And it was a great time to be together. We did, we didn't, we were out of our surroundings, school. And our parents were there, but they weren't really watching over us too much. And we did everything on that trip as far as getting ready in the morning, loading the boats up, loading the decoys up, getting all the gear ready. That was more fun than, hunting was fun. It was freezing there. It was so cold, we couldn't wait to get back to the cabin in the evening time and get into a warm home again, and we watch movies and read books, and just hang out.

HARRIS: Are you familiar with a friend Scott had named Grant Ortmeyer. He wasn't on that trip was he?

PETERSON: No.

HARRIS: Do you know why he wasn't on that trip?

PETERSON: Yeah, I know why.

HARRIS: Why?

PETERSON: Because he wasn't too safe with his shotgun.

HARRIS: Did he keep shooting Lee?

PETERSON: He would if Grant was hunting with you, I believe that was, that would be dove hunting. You had to keep your distance from Grant. He could step to, maybe shoot too low or too close to you. And on one of those occasions, he shot too close to Lee and brushed him pretty good with some, with the shotgun shot, we call it, or, yeah.

HARRIS: I want to talk just a minute, show you some pictures. If you will tell us a little about what age and what's going on here, what your memories are. First one is D9L-11. Who is in there, who is in that picture, Joe?

PETERSON: Looks like that's me on, my eyes aren't that good. That's me on the far left. I guess John next to me closest to Jackie, and then looks like Scott's on the right side.

HARRIS: What is that a picture of, can you tell?

PETERSON: I can tell she is reading a book, Christmas book.

HARRIS: That is the Night Before Christmas?

PETERSON: Night Before Christmas. That would be a book that, story that we would read on Christmas Eve, as Jackie would, or Lee, or dad would start us out reading it. Then each kid would take a page, read a page, then pass the book on, and we would go through the book, all of us kids, one or two pages, and read the book before we opened presents.

HARRIS: That was an annual tradition?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Is that a tradition you continue in your family?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: And has Scott come to your house and with your children?

PETERSON: Yes. Yes, he has.

HARRIS: Had them do that?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: This is also kind of a, you can see, light picture. What is going on in that picture that you recall?

PETERSON: Looks like he's putting on some kind of a dance move, dancing. Probably something that Susan put him up to.

HARRIS: Is she trying to get him to dance around the house?

PETERSON: Tried to get him to dance around the house, or dress up. You know. Dress up in costumes, and everything that a big sister would want her little brother to do.

HARRIS: Scott usually willing to go along?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. He was good natured. He wanted to please us, and get a reaction out of us, so we would put him up to things in the house.

HARRIS: Three pictures kind of go together. D 9L-7, D9L-8, and D9L-9. See if I can put them all on here. Is that the crating company?

PETERSON: Yeah. That's the family business. That's my grandpa in the background, Grandpa Peterson. And that's my brother Mark giving Scott a football play. We play football in the, right there in the back.

HARRIS: Is that you?

PETERSON: In the back parking lot.

HARRIS: Is that you?

PETERSON: That's me. A lot of time there, whether we were working or not.

HARRIS: That's Mark and Lee and Scott?

PETERSON: Yeah.

HARRIS: D 9L-10. Do you know what, that's a picture of Joe?

PETERSON: Looks like a birthday party. I can see John and myself and Mark and Grandpa Peterson, and Scott and Susan. And see dad in that picture.

HARRIS: Susan is on the right there?

PETERSON: Susan on the right.

HARRIS: And then on the bottom in the green striped shirt, is that, that's Mark?

PETERSON: I'm in the green and blue. Mark is in the red and blue. John is in the bottom left-hand corner.

HARRIS: That's Scott in the middle?

PETERSON: That's Scott eyeballing the candles, yeah.

HARRIS: Is that his birthday?

PETERSON: I don't know. It didn't matter at that age whose birthday it was. He was going to get to the candles first, and probably the presents first.

HARRIS: Was he, when you said he tagged along, was he generally smiling, generally happy?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. That's the kind of kid he was. He was ready to do, you know, whatever we had out before us that day. And always with a good attitude. And just woke up in the morning contented and happy.

HARRIS: D9L-3.

PETERSON: Looks like he's hugging a tree.

HARRIS: As a general rule, would Scott like to play outdoors? Was he kind of an outdoor person?

PETERSON: Yes. Very much. Yeah, we were, we didn't stay at home much. We weren't much to be home on the weekend watching TV or movies. If there was an outdoor activity going on, whether we had to make something up in the front yard or the canyon, we would do that, unless our parents were going to take us somewhere.

HARRIS: When he was young, when he was around this age, he told, you told me he was quite shy at the time. Is that the accurate?

PETERSON: Quiet, smiling, shy, yeah.

HARRIS: Did, as he got older, as you had the chance to see him grow older, that did change, did it?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah.

HARRIS: When did that really start to change?

PETERSON: Probably I would say beginning of high school when I noticed a change in him. Got to be more social, more outgoing. More talkative, as far as what was going on at school. Talking about golf more, fishing more, cars more. Everything just kind of blossomed at high school. And I was, I loved it, because I was, I had been there. I'm nine years older than he is, and I had been through that stage in my life, and I didn't, I wanted, I really enjoyed that he would share with me everything that he was going through, or thinking about through high school.

HARRIS: People told you that you are the most like him?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Two of the most alike?

PETERSON: I have heard that.

HARRIS: Why?

PETERSON: I have been told I'm somewhat reserved. I have been told that I'm confident. I have been told that I I'm a good listener. Scott is a good listener. That we both want to, we both want to please our parents. That's something that we both have in us as far as wanting to please parents, teachers. Wanting to do the best we can do in those situations. And Scott and I are a lot alike.

HARRIS: Do you have a, one of your, you told me a little story about one of your sons. That's Zachary?

PETERSON: Zachary.

HARRIS: You have a problem, occasionally you call him Scott?

PETERSON: Yeah. Zachary is 15 now. And I'd say for the past two years I will call Zachary, by mistake I'll call him Scott, because it just, I see him, I see him some of the characteristics in Zachary that I saw in Scott growing up. And I call Scott Zack by mistake too.

HARRIS: At some point Scott went away to college, and then ended up coming back to the family business?

PETERSON: Yeah.

<recess>

HARRIS: Joe, we left off, we were talking about Scott coming back from college in Arizona and working at the company. He was there for how long?

PETERSON: I would say it was like six to eight months that in between after Arizona before he moved to San Luis Obispo.

HARRIS: And was he employed there full-time?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: What, first of all before I ask you about Scott particularly, what kind of labor involved in the business that you were in, the crating business?

PETERSON: We move equipment around, we drive trucks, we move equipment, we pick up goods to be packaged or shipped. We build crates and pallets and cardboard boxes to package items and ship them. So there is, it's a full manufacturing moving warehouse.

HARRIS: Does it involve a lot of construction work, labor work?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah, we use every type of tool that a contractor would use to build a house: Nail guns, staple guns, hammers, nails, screw guns, drills, everything. All hand tools.

HARRIS: When Scott came to work for your company what did you have him do?

PETERSON: He was a laborer. He started out in the warehouse. We had him doing all the work in the warehouse that every, all the other manufacturers or laborers were doing at that time.

HARRIS: Right.

PETERSON: He was doing all the tasks from the bottom up, from cleaning, stacking lumber, sweeping, unloading and loading trucks, fork lifts. He was a warehouse worker.

HARRIS: Is that hard work?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah, it is.

HARRIS: Did he ever complain about it?

PETERSON: No.

HARRIS: He later on, as you're aware, he later on went to San Luis Obispo and opened up with your father a crating company there as well?

PETERSON: Yes. Yes.

HARRIS: Now they had no employees, is that right?

PETERSON: No, just they added Scott doing, yeah, doing everything for the company.

HARRIS: So the labor would have been done, Scott would have been the same one who actually did the same labor at that crating company?

PETERSON: Yeah, when I visited them they'd go out sell the job, get the job and physically package or move or crate whatever they were doing, yeah. It was hands-on, very hands-on business. Our business is very hands-on.

HARRIS: From what you've seen Scott actually working, is he a hard worker?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah, I was in charge at that time, I think he must have been maybe 18, 19 years old. I was in charge of the shop in San Diego. And when he came to work he was ambitious, he was young, he wanted to do more than I wanted him to do. He was, he was a go-getter, he wanted to drive the bigger trucks, go on the bigger jobs. We'd do a lot of on-site work so we'd do a lot of customer relations. We'd meet the customer, design crates and move for them, and he wanted to go right out and pledge into that and bring in more business. He was ambitious about doing that and, which is, it was nice to have that energy there because I needed somebody, you know, to help me, but I had to sit him down somewhat and slowly bring him along. He wanted to do too much and I thought he was too young, you know, to take on the bigger jobs.

HARRIS: As I mentioned, he did go ahead and move on with his life, move on to San Luis and go on back to college. Why do you think he went on to San Luis, what was your sort of feel for it?

PETERSON: I think, you know, I was running the business in San Diego and I think, we worked well together, but I think he wanted more. I think he wanted eventually to be his own man, to be his own boss, to start something on his own. You know, this is a family business and he, he had ambitions about doing things on his own, had that independent, somewhat independent nature to, you know, to start something. And I think that's why he, I think that's why he moved. I think after college and golf wasn't what it was going to be for him, whether he was going to be a teaching pro or stay in the golf business I think that left him some time in there. He wanted to move on, go to college, start a business elsewhere.

HARRIS: When he left did you maintain contact?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yes. We talked on the phone all the time. We'd probably meet up two or three times a year fishing or hunting. We'd meet somewhere, you know, in the middle between where we both lived. Or he would come down, you know, for holidays, come back down to San Diego. So we were in contact all the time. He, he initiated those contacts. He was good about getting on the phone and calling.

HARRIS: Did you actually, as he got older, did you become closer?

PETERSON: Yeah. Yes, we did.

HARRIS: You're, technically you're a half brother, is that right?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: As you got older did Scott make a request to call you something?

PETERSON: He started, didn't make a request, he just started calling me Brother. He didn't call me by my name anymore, Brother was what he started to use so I used it back to him and that's how we greet each other now.

HARRIS: You had a chance to, as you were growing up and Scott was growing up watch the relationship that he had with his father and you had with your father as well, Lee, can you tell us about that.

PETERSON: I think a lot of what my father showed us, my father showed us that we could, that he could be a father and a friend. And as we got older, friendship between me and my father, Scott and my father was, was very close. You know, we not only worked together, but we shared time together golfing, hunting fishing. And their relationship was, at a young age, we knew that wherever dad was Scott was. If we were going to meet up with dad, we were driving at this time and meeting up for dinners and picnics, we knew that Scott would be with dad. They were, you know, together all the time.

HARRIS: Would you consider it a very special relationship that they had?

PETERSON: Definitely, yes.

HARRIS: You said early on in your testimony you have three children?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Brittany, 17, Zachary, 15, right, Jake?

PETERSON: And Jacob's 13.

HARRIS: Thirteen?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: How was, before he was arrested, how was Scott's relationship with your children?

PETERSON: On every time that we would either go up to San Luis Obispo or Scott would come down we'd be, you know, we'd be together as a family. They, my kids would always inquire about Uncle Scott: When is he coming, how long is he going to stay, will he, is he going to come to our soccer game. You know, they wanted to know his routine and what he was going to do when he was in town, as well as when we went up to San Luis Obispo they were, you know, they only saw him two or three times a year so on those occasions they were just intrigued and glowing about seeing their uncle.

HARRIS: You mentioned soccer games and volleyball games, did he go?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Would he frequent?

PETERSON: He had been to numerous soccer games for both my boys and he's been to Brittany's. Brittany plays high school or did play high school volleyball and club volleyball. And if that's what we were doing and Scott was in town he would, he would come and they,

HARRIS: I want to show you a couple pictures. This is D 9 M-6. Do you know where that was taken?

PETERSON: Yeah, that's a park in Del Mar right on the ocean. Those palm trees are, that's right where the water is over there. And that's a gathering spot for us as a family to have birthday parties or just dinners and just hang out on, you know, Saturday or Sunday afternoons since that's a big part of what we do and what we have done our whole life.

HARRIS: Now that's Scott, is that one of your children?

PETERSON: I don't know. Probably. Yeah, I guess at that age.

HARRIS: That would have been about right?

PETERSON: That would have been about right.

HARRIS: D 9 M-7, this is, where is this taken at?

PETERSON: That's in, that's in San Diego. That's John and Alison's wedding when Scott was best man. And that's my son, Zachary, that Scott's holding onto him. I guess Zachary is probably about I guess four years old there. Yeah, they, that's what you saw when they got together, wrestling matches and him holding the kids and taking them out and just, you know, spending time with them.

HARRIS: Did he, did you take Jackie and Scott with you on some of these fishing trips?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: Did they enjoy going with Scott?

PETERSON: Yeah, again, I get the questions, the 20 questions of where we're going to meet him, when we're going to meet him. And when he would get there they would go to their Uncle Scott. I was on my own when we'd go on a fishing trip because they again were just enthralled with him and who he is to them. They would ride in his truck, they would use his fishing gear, they'd wear his hats. You know, I'm surprised we didn't take everything from him and haul it home because they were, you know, they were so close and they are so close.

HARRIS: Did he end up helping to teach Brittany how to drive?

PETERSON: Yeah. When Brittany got her learner's permit Scott had a truck at the time and he would take my daughter out and drive her around town, let her drive. As long as he was in the car, you know, she had her permit she could drive and he did that on a number of occasions.

HARRIS: How are they dealing with this current situation with Scott being in jail?

PETERSON: They, you know, kids are pretty, they're resilient. They, they're strong kids. They, they've taken it very hard. They can't believe that something like this can happen. They, they ask about how their uncle can be locked up. They ask how, why would somebody think that he can do this.

HARRIS: Do they write to him?

PETERSON: What's that?

HARRIS: Do they write to him?

PETERSON: Yeah, they write letters, Scott writes back to them. I don't, I haven't read, I don't read their letters. I watch them as they read the letters and they smile and they laugh when they see their uncle's letters when they're coming.

HARRIS: Do they enjoy getting letters?

PETERSON: Yes, very much.

HARRIS: The question that we ask, been asked to decide here that's going to be given to the jury deals with whether or not Scott is a life that's worth saving. You're as close to him as anyone, is that right?

PETERSON: Yeah, I know him better than anyone, at least as well as my parents do.

HARRIS: Can you reconcile the Scott Peterson you know as the person who could have done this?

PETERSON: No way, not my brother. Absolutely not.

HARRIS: If he's allowed to live will that have some impact, positive impact on you and your family?

PETERSON: Yes, if he's allowed to live my kids and our family will still have some sort of relationship, some sort of whatever, however limited it is, whatever communication we can have with him my kids would be involved in that as well as our entire family.

HARRIS: If he's allowed to live do you think he can have a positive impact in jail,

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: on others?

PETERSON: Scott is, he's a person you want to be around in any circumstance. As, like I said before, as a listener, as a talker, as someone who cares, he's just got so much to, in him to share that it would definitely be, there would definitely be a positive. In our lives there's no other, there's no other choice.

HARRIS: Do you want to see your brother live?

PETERSON: Yes.

HARRIS: That's all I have.