New Questions Have Scott Peterson's Alibi On Shaky Ground
Larry King Live
Aired February 13, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, GUEST HOST: Tonight, tensions mount as rumors circulate in Laci Peterson's hometown of Modesto, and new questions surface about Scott Peterson's alibi. Tonight, Laci's brother, torn because he was not there to protect Laci, Brent Rocha, joins us. Laci's sister, the last Rocha family member to see Laci before she went missing, Amy Rocha, and Laci's stepfather, demanding some answers, Ron Grantski is with us. Then the panel weighs in. In New York, high-profile attorney Mickey Sherman. From Boston, former prosecutor Wendy Murphy. In D.C., Marc Klaas. His daughter, Polly, abducted in murdered in '93. From New York, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner. And in San Francisco, Ted Rowlands from KTVU, on the story since it broke.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Hello, everyone. Welcome to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Nancy Grace from Court TV, in for Larry tonight. Thank you for being with us.
Let's go now to Laci's stepfather, Ron Grantski. He is joining us from their hometown.
Hi, Mr. Grantski.
RON GRANTSKI, LACI PETERSON'S STEPFATHER: Good evening.
GRACE: Mr. Grantski, first of all, thank you for being with us. There are rumors circulating. I know tension is mounting. How is the condition of your family tonight?
GRANTSKI: Well, we've had and heard nothing but rumors for a couple, three weeks now, so -- we're a pretty strong family, and we've become a lot stronger through this. And we're just not believing rumors. We want facts.
GRACE: Mr. Grantski, when you have spoken to Scott -- first of all, when was the last time you spoke to him?
GRANTSKI: I haven't talked to Scott in about three weeks.
GRACE: Now, I understood from your wife, who is ill tonight, that you had reached out, that your family had reached out to Scott Peterson, and he is no longer returning calls or corresponding with you in any way. Is that true?
GRANTSKI: That's pretty much true.
GRANTSKI: We just had some questions that, you know -- we understand that he might have some personal problems, money problems that we don't know about. Maybe that's why he's selling the car. Maybe that's why he's -- you know, wants to do something with the house. But if we're part of the family, his family, then I think it would be, you know, a courtesy to let us know what he's doing instead of doing everything he's doing on his own.
GRACE: Now, Amy Rocha -- everyone, this is Laci's sister, who is with us tonight. Amy, were you taken aback when you found out Laci's car had been traded in?
AMY ROCHA, LACI PETERSON'S SISTER: Yes. That bothered me a lot. I mean, that's part of Laci, and for him to do that -- I don't know how he could. Like, it's bothering.
GRACE: Well, a question about the car. He has stated to a couple of news outlets that he -- through his family, of course -- that Laci never liked the vehicle, that she wanted to get rid of it. Is that true?
AMY ROCHA: No. She liked her car. I don't know about her getting rid of it. I know she liked her car.
GRACE: You know what I find interesting, Amy? You were with Laci on the 23rd, the night before she went missing. The two, Laci and Scott, came in, and you trimmed Scott's hair. Now, was that normal? Who set that up.
AMY ROCHA: Oh, that was normal. I've been cutting his hair since they've moved back to Modesto, so -- it was very normal. They always came in, and I cut both their hair, so it was a normal day.
GRACE: Do you recall what Laci's mood was that night?
AMY ROCHA: What her mood was, was it?
AMY ROCHA: Oh, it was normal. She was tired, but it was in the evening and -- I mean, other than that, they -- normal conversation. It wasn't any different.
GRACE: Amy, do you recall what she had on that night? The reason I'm asking -- there's been a lot of speculation, as you know, Amy, as Laci's sister, that she may have gone missing that night, after you trimmed Scott's hair, on the 23rd. And I'm just wondering about her clothing that night, if it has been recovered in the home, because if it was not, that would indicate to me that she did go missing that night. What was she wearing?
AMY ROCHA: I do remember what she had on. I don't know if they've -- I haven't heard -- I don't know if the police have found clothing. GRACE: Well, what was it?
AMY ROCHA: I'm not too sure of that, but I do know what she had on.
AMY ROCHA: She was wearing, like, a black-colored top with cream either flowers or polka dots on it. It was a maternity shirt. And like, cream-colored pants, a black coat, cream scarf.
GRACE: Brent, let me go to you about discussions about the life insurance policy, the $250,000 life insurance policy. Now, I know from sources -- they have stated police came to the family, to Laci's family, and told you guys about this policy. But my understanding was that police believe there to be a single $250,000 life insurance policy on Laci. Later I heard Scott Peterson state it was a mutual policy on the two of them. Do you know the answer?
BRENT ROCHA, LACI PETERSON'S BROTHER: I don't, Nancy. I've heard it from Scott's end, and it seems like that insurance was purchased a while ago, but I don't have the details as to how much was on each one of them or when they were purchased.
GRACE: Mr. Grantski...
GRANTSKI: They talked about it briefly at our house. So that's...
GRANTSKI: And that was a couple weeks -- they talked about it briefly a couple of weeks before -- you know, somewhere in the middle of December, that they had -- they were talking about taking out insurance policies. But other than that, I don't know anything else about it.
GRACE: So that's not terribly unusual. I want to ask you about the boat, Ron Grantski. How long has Scott had the boat?
GRANTSKI: That's a good question. I don't know. I hadn't heard about it until, actually, that night that...
GRACE: So when was the last time you guys were over at Laci's place?
GRANTSKI: We were there, I believe it was the 14th or 13th of December, right in there somewhere.
GRACE: And there was no boat there.
GRANTSKI: No. No. No. From what I understand -- you know, here again, it's just what he tells me, so that's all I can go by.
GRACE: So to your knowledge, had Laci ever been in the boat?
GRANTSKI: That I don't know.
GRACE: I understand, Brent, that there is an upcoming search. Tell me about that.
BRENT ROCHA: The family has scheduled three searches during the month of February. We conducted our first search last weekend. It was a great turnout. We had approximately 500 volunteers show up, which we were very pleased about. We're going to have another search at a local lake this weekend, and we're encouraging volunteers to come out to the lake. And they can get more information at lacipeterson.com. If they cannot make it out to Don Pedro Lake (ph), where we're going to conduct the search, they are more than willing to go out and search other lakes. And if they'd like to let us know which areas they searched, they can send us a map and highlight it and let us know. I can give you an address for that, if you're ready.
GRACE: I'm ready.
BRENT ROCHA: OK. It's 1508 Coffee Road, Suite...
GRACE: It's 1508 Coffee Road, Suite...
BRENT ROCHA: Suite H...
GRACE: H, as in happy.
BRENT ROCHA: And that's in Modesto, California, 95355. Or they can phone in their searched areas at 209-567-1059.
GRACE: So that is information about this weekend's upcoming search. Thanks, Brent.
Back to you, Ron Grantski. We've heard a lot of speculation regarding the draperies in the home. The neighbors state first thing Laci did every morning was pull the draperies open to let the sun in. A neighbor happened to notice that had not been done that entire day of the 24th. How much stock do you put in that?
GRANTSKI: Well, I think -- you know, I responded to this probably three or four weeks ago, and I thought it was silly. Maybe it isn't. But she doesn't have drapes. She has blinds.
GRANTSKI: And so they might be -- you know, she might have opened the blinds. So when it came out first and they said opening the drapes -- well, you know, they don't have drapes. So maybe that's just a technicality, but -- I'll be...
GRACE: Mr. Grantski...
GRANTSKI: ... honest. I don't know.
GRACE: I want to move...
GRANTSKI: I don't know about that. GRACE: I want to move forward a little bit to what's happening right now. We understand that the police are waiting on the DNA results. Have they given you any clues as to what was taken from the home and the possibility of the results?
GRANTSKI: No. Not at all.
GRACE: Brent, do you have any idea what was taken from the home?
BRENT ROCHA: No. You know, I hear rumors, like the media hears, but I don't have facts.
GRACE: Have you asked Scott about it?
BRENT ROCHA: No. Scott hasn't been really forthcoming with information or available to ask questions.
GRACE: You know, I noticed that over the past weekend, when he went to Mexico for his business trip, after that -- after he had checked out of the, I believe it was the Hilton down there, he kind of was gone. He was amorphous for about two days. Any idea where Scott was?
BRENT ROCHA: I know he arrived back in LA on Saturday evening, I believe. I believe someone ran into him down at the airport, but I don't know where he was prior to that.
GRACE: Ron Grantski, as Laci's stepfather, what was her pattern? What were her habits? You know, a lot of women call their mothers every day or call home every night before they go to bed. What was her habit?
GRANTSKI: Well, you know, you have to remember, you know, Scott and Laci, you know, lived their own lives, and they had their own lives and friends, and so forth. But if there was any kind of a function or any question, she was very close to Sharon, and she called her mother all the time or, you know, would come by and see us. So if that's what you mean by a pattern, if there was anything of any importance, believe me, Laci would have said something to her mother.
GRACE: Do you feel strongly, Ron, that she would have told Mrs. Rocha about an affair, if she knew about it?
GRANTSKI: She would have told somebody. I've known Laci since she was 2 years old, and as she was growing up, she never had a problem telling me when something bothered her, or anybody else. So there's no doubt in my mind that if -- if Scott said something to that effect, then we would have known about it or he would have known about it.
GRACE: Everyone, joining us tonight, the family of Laci Peterson. Stay with us.
GRACE: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Nancy Grace from Court TV, in for Larry King tonight.
Joining us from their hometown, Laci Peterson's family, as the search for missing Laci continues on. With us, her stepfather, Ron Grantski, her brother, Brent, and her sister, Amy.
All of you are presenting a united front, as you continue to search for Laci. Everyone in the press, everyone following this story across the country, has noticed a sharp conflict, a divergence with Scott Peterson. Amy Rocha, you were in pretty much constant contact with Laci. You spoke to her every other day or so. I was asking your dad this. Would she have mentioned it to you or another family member if she had known anything about this affair?
AMY ROCHA: Yes. I believe that very strongly, that she would have mentioned it. Maybe to not me, but to our mom, to one of her girlfriends. She would have said something. Like Ron said, Laci, when something was on her mind, of course, she would not be at peace with this, and so I think that...
GRACE: Yes, that's what I was getting at, Amy, because what Scott Peterson said when he spoke with Diane Sawyer was that she was OK with it. I've been dying to ask you, a family member, if that is true. You know her better than anybody.
AMY ROCHA: I know. Yes. We all know that Laci would not just be, like, OK with it and at peace.
GRACE: Oh, yes!
AMY ROCHA: No way. She would be so bothered. And I mean, any woman, especially how far along she was in pregnancy, she's not going to be OK with it. She would have...
GRACE: No, no, no! Let me go to you, Ron, about this alleged meeting with a realtor. Now, to your understanding, when did Scott first approach a realtor about selling the home? There's been a lot of confusion about that.
GRANTSKI: Well, here again, you know, I can go by rumors, just like you've heard. I understood that it was, like, a week after. But here again, that was a rumor. I don't know if that's true or not.
GRACE: Well, Mr. Grantski, this is what I don't understand. Have you put these hard questions to Scott?
GRANTSKI: After the fact, after all this is done -- to be honest with you, I really don't want to talk to him. I figure it's not my job to put them to him. He should be putting them to me.
BRENT ROCHA: I have, Nancy. I asked him about...
GRACE: Tell me, Brent.
BRENT ROCHA: ... selling the house. Well, he says the house is too unsafe for Laci to come back to. And then my issue with that is that, allegedly, she was down in the park when something happened. How -- you know, what -- the house wasn't a place of something bad going wrong. So it doesn't make sense why he's trying to sell the home.
GRACE: Well, you know, I asked his sister-in-law that the other night, why put the house up for sale? And that was the response Scott had given her, was he didn't want to live in a home where Laci had been kidnapped and, you know, I thought Marc Klaas was going to jump out of his skin because that's the first we'd heard she was kidnapped from the home.
BRENT ROCHA: Correct.
GRACE: So your understanding -- and you asked him that question, Brent.
BRENT ROCHA: Yes.
GRACE: You know, there seems to be so many questions hanging out there that you guys would like to ask him. When did contact cease between Scott and your family?
BRENT ROCHA: For me, it was about three weeks ago, short after we learned about the affair. But I don't think that's the reason contact ceased. I think it was more of his behaviors, and the way he was acting led us to believe that there's something more to this. And he just made it very difficult for us to be in contact with him.
GRACE: You mean what, not answer the phone, not return messages?
BRENT ROCHA: Yes. We were just like another reporter. Our conversations were brief. He screened our calls, kind of avoided us. He wasn't too forthcoming. We had to pull everything out of him.
GRACE: You know what? I've got to tell you something. That would break my heart, if my family was screening my phone calls at a time like this. But you have managed to ask him a couple of tough questions about the house. And what were his words, Brent, about why he wanted to sell the house?
BRENT ROCHA: The house? Because he said it was unsafe for Laci to live in when she comes back.
GRACE: And I guess the car was unsafe for Laci to drive when she got back.
BRENT ROCHA: Yes. I didn't get a chance to ask him about that one.
GRANTSKI: I don't know how Laci was supposed to find him, if she came back.
GRACE: Well, you know, I asked that question the other night. I was attacked by a group of defense attorneys that said, you know, it's crazy to expect him to stay there. If there was a kidnap for ransom or a kidnap, they would know how to find Scott Peterson. I don't know if that's true or not, but I am noticing, Brent, that he is kind of disappearing. No one seems to know where he is. Is he with his family? Where does he stay when he's not there in the home?
BRENT ROCHA: Nancy, he's always gone. I think in the last week or so, he's probably been home one or two nights. He travels out of town, out of the state or out of the country for business. He's staying at friends'. He's ending up at hotels. He's just avoiding Modesto, in general, and avoiding any search for trying to find Laci.
GRACE: Now, OK, I know this is floating out there, but there have been wire reports that on a couple of occasions, Scott would get flyers from the volunteer center as if he were going to go put them up, and then actually go play golf. Any truth to that?
BRENT ROCHA: I'm hearing the same thing. Whether it's true or not, I have not been able to verify it. But yes, I have heard the same thing.
GRACE: Wow! So far, have you been happy with what police are telling you? Have they shared anything with you that you can share with us? You know, a whole country is sitting on the edge of its seat, wanting to find Laci.
BRENT ROCHA: Unfortunately -- well, the Modesto Police Department has been very informative and kept us in the loop. They have not told us anything that would compromise the investigation, so I really don't have anything to share, other than what's out there right now.
GRACE: Did they tell you how long it was going to take for the DNA results to come back?
BRENT ROCHA: I don't know. Initially, I think it was 60 days. I'm not sure if there was...
GRACE: Two months!
BRENT ROCHA: ... a deadline.
GRACE: Do you recall that, Ron, about 60 days for the DNA to come back?
GRANTSKI: That's correct. Yes. Yes.
GRACE: Man, that must be...
GRANTSKI: They had to spend some more time, so...
GRACE: ... some heck of a check! Well, you know, a lot of times, when they think they found something, they have to multiply the sample under a microscope. That takes a considerable amount of time. But at the outset, they suggested 60 days?
GRANTSKI: Yes. Number one, they didn't say anything about a sample. They said whatever -- they had to do some more investigating, and it would take 30 to 60 days.
GRACE: Any idea, Brent, as to what the items were that were seized?
BRENT ROCHA: Well, besides the truck and the boat, you know, some of the things that you reported earlier are the things I'm hearing. But that's what I hear through the grapevine. I don't have that confirmed from anyone.
GRACE: And real quickly, before we have to go, Brent, tell me again. The search is going to be where this weekend?
BRENT ROCHA: It's going to be at Lake Don Pedro, about 45 miles east of Modesto. And we've been instructed and been cooperating with the Modesto Police Department on our searches, and our focus is on waterways and...
GRANTSKI: Modesto Reservoir.
GRACE: Waterways! Any particular reason, waterways?
BRENT ROCHA: They did not specify a reason.
GRACE: Yes. They're probably just searching anywhere they haven't already searched.
Guys, thank you for being with us. And you've got to know so many people are rooting for you and your family. Please know that.
GRANTSKI: Yes, we do.
GRANTSKI: We appreciate it very much.
GRACE: Everyone with us tonight, Laci's stepfather, he's been front and center from the get-go, Ron Grantski, her brother, Brent, and her sister, Amy. And everyone, I want to give you this number one more time. If you know anything, if you think you know something, 209-342-6166 or lacipeterson.com.
Stay with us.
GRACE: Good evening, and welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace from Court TV, in for Larry King tonight. Thank you for being with us.
Let's go out live now to Modesto. Standing by, Ted Rowlands, who has been on the case from the very beginning. Ted, what is the latest out of the Modesto Police Department?
TED ROWLANDS, KTVU, HAS INTERVIEWED SCOTT PETERSON: Well, not necessarily out of the department, but a very reliable source is telling me that investigators are working methodically, and they are weeks rather than months, from getting enough evidence to go to the DA with or without a body. And this just goes to what we were talking about earlier, that this department and these detectives have seemed focused from weeks ago that they knew what they were doing. They're not waking up every day, putting their finger in the wind to figure out what they're going to do today. They've been methodically building the case, and presumably, that case is against Scott Peterson.
GRACE: Are you telling me an arrest is imminent?
ROWLANDS: I wouldn't say imminent, but weeks away, rather than months away. And it's -- there's light at the end of tunnel. They have a plan, and they are just methodically building to that end, and they have very clear focus.
GRACE: Wendy Murphy, a former prosecutor, is with me. When I hear a time attached to an arrest, that makes me think -- makes me wonder how they've come up with this timetable. And when I hear weeks to an arrest, I naturally think that that is tied in to a DNA result. What do you think? What else could they be waiting on?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No, Nancy. I mean, there's nothing else that you could really measure with that much precision. I mean, they can't predict that they might find some big piece of evidence in a few weeks. And we do know they've been doing some important forensic tests, as we heard from Laci's family, tests that have grown in significance, where they're doing increasingly significant tests or more precise tests over time. So it definitely tells me that they are just waiting for the final results.
And you know, Nancy, what I'm going to be most interested in watching, at this point, is Scott's behavior now, now that he knows the heat is rising and they're coming after him. Boy, are the cameras going to be on him 24/7!
GRACE: Good point. Good point.
Let me go to you on that. Ted Rowlands -- everyone, Ted is with us from San Francisco tonight. Ted, have you -- I know you speak with Scott Peterson fairly often. You're one of the few phone calls he'll take. Have you mentioned to him that, apparently, an arrest is planned within a couple of weeks?
ROWLANDS: Yes. As soon as we were informed of that, I asked Scott about it, told him about that and asked if he was worried about it. And he said, No, I'm not concerned at all. They would need something to arrest me, so I'm not worried. And that was about it. As we've discussed before, his conversations are fairly short, and he doesn't take a lot of follow-up questions.
GRACE: Marc Klaas. Response?
MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER POLLY ABDUCTED AND MURDERED IN 1993: Well, it seems to me -- I mean, this is just my gut feeling, but if somebody tells me that they're on the verge of arresting me, my response would be, I haven't done anything to be arrested for, not, They don't have anything on me. So I think that's a little bit odd.
GRACE: Dr. Michael Welner, everyone, is joining us from New York. What is your response to Peterson's reaction? Michael?
DR. MICHAEL WELNER, M.D., FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: I think, at this point, there's no correct way to act. He's damned if he does, he's damned if he doesn't. And the more the pitch rises, the more he's going to hunker down and be guarded and withdrawn. And that's why we should be doing everything but pushing him away. We should be making it easier for him to deal with family, to deal with others, so he's not so off-limits.
GRACE: Well, Mickey -- Mickey Sherman is with us, everyone. He is a world-renowned, at this point, defense attorney. Mickey, I don't want to paint everything Scott Peterson does with a nefarious stroke, in retrospect. But it seems to me if someone said, Hey, Nancy, police may arrest you. They're making an arrest in a couple of weeks. Are you worried? I would be out of my mind!
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, how do we know...
GRACE: Denying it, but...
SHERMAN: Yes. But how do we know he's not out of his mind? And he has denied it, but the more he does, the worse it gets. And we are painting everything he does with the nefarious stroke. We're using this kind of a one-size-fits-all, that everything this guy does makes it seem he's guilty. And I don't know that he's guilty. I don't know that he's not guilty. But I know, as family points out, you know, so compassionately and poignantly, you know, why should we just operate on rumors? Let's wait to see what the police find out, and let's see what they do.
And to say that there's light at the end of tunnel -- well, there ain't a light. Maybe there's an arrest at the end of tunnel, but that's a long way from a light. That's a long way from a solution to this case.
KLAAS: Well, you know...
MURPHY: It's a matter of perspective! Come on, Mickey! That's a light to this family and it's a light to people who are using their common sense! You know, I love defense attorneys who say, Oh, come on, let's not draw nefarious inferences. My goodness! If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, Mickey, it's probably a duck! You go out of your way to...
SHERMAN: Wendy, you say that he's going to bust and that he's going to confess, right? Aren't you saying that he's near breaking or something like that?
MURPHY: No! I say -- look, it's important -- I mean, if this guy is guilty, his behavior right now, when he knows an arrest is on the horizon, is going to change! And it will change in ways... (CROSSTALK)
KLAAS: This leaves the question, then...
SHERMAN: Do you think he's going to confess out of the blue...
SHERMAN: If he didn't do it, he's not going to confess!
GRACE: Guys, hold on one moment!
SHERMAN: And if he did do it...
GRACE: I want to get a reaction from Marc Klaas on...
KLAAS: You know, this really leaves the question -- and I'd like to ask Dr. Welner, how do we embrace Scott Peterson when everything that he does points a finger at himself? I mean, how do we bring this guy in and make him part of the family here?
WELNER: I don't think this is an issue of embracing. I think we've really lost focus here. There's a missing person and a missing unborn child that has been completely eclipsed by every little move he makes. He either says this, he does this, he goes here, he goes there. The families have been cut off from one another. So you have a -- essentially, an amputation of two families that have been completely cut apart because of all the focus on him. If we just stopped focusing on him to make him less withdrawn...
WELNER: ... less guarded, less distanced...
GRACE: Dr. Welner?
WELNER: ... it would be easier to approach this.
GRACE: Dr. Welner, I've got to go to break. I'm going to come back to you when we get back. And Mickey, regarding a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe the family just wants peace.
Stay with us, everyone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN CAUDILLO, SCOTT PETERSON'S SISTER: Our families are once again asking for the public's help. It has been over seven weeks since Laci and the baby were taken from us. With her due date being this month we feel it is critical to continue our efforts in looking for Laci everywhere we can. Every day we post and deliver flyers. We meet people who are not aware that she is missing. We cannot ignore that Laci's pregnancy may have had something to do with her abduction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing a quick sound bite from a press conference held by Scott Peterson's family just a few hours ago.
Ted Rowlands, out to you. A lot of rumors circulating tonight. New reports that will certainly at least light the fire under the police investigation whether they be true or not. Let me ask you, if you have any independent confirmation of these report, for instance, that Laci's blood has in fact been found in Scott Peterson's truck, and that his boat has been tested and shows no sign of saltwater whatsoever. Meaning it was never launched.
ROWLANDS: Right. I have no independent confirmation on those. Those are coming from the "Enquirer" which say tabloid. Typically, you wouldn't give that much notice, however the "Enquirer" has broken a few things in this story. So they do obviously have a source somewhere that is ringing true in some instances, but I'm not going to touch then "Enquirer" and at this point I can't do it because...
GRACE: Ted Rowland, if you don't know a horse, I suggest you look at its track record. So far they're the ones that have broken quite a few stories on this case that have turned out to be true, and if this is true, this is a powder keg waiting to go off. I'm going to get this one more time for the viewers who didn't hear it when you first said it, Ted.
You called Scott and said police sources suggest an arrest will go down in a couple of weeks and his response was what?
ROWLANDS: He at first said I hadn't heard that and I repeated myself and he said, Umm.
And I sort of pushed him and I said are you concern, are you worried? And he said, no, they don't have anything -- they would need something on me to arrest me, so no, I'm not worried. And that was pretty much the end of the conversation.
GRACE: Any idea where he goes when he seems to go missing?
ROWLANDS: He leaves the city of Fresno, from what we -- from Modesto and sometimes goes to Fresno from what we understand.
And as Brent said earlier in the show, he reportedly has been staying at the hotel sometimes, and at friends' houses sometimes. And usually comes home to his Modesto home in the morning for maybe an hour or two and then takes off and he is gone. On the golf rumors, we can tell you that he has played golf since Laci disappeared and that, to some people speaks volumes. He is a very avid golfer.
ROWLANDS: Well, I -- people aren't able to get on with their normal lives. You know this as well as I do. Neither my wife nor I were able to go back to work during the 65 days when we were looking for Polly, because we were consumed by fear and anger. And we did everything we could and focused our every attention in finding my daughter until we realized the Horrible truth. And quite frankly, by that time, we were physical and emotional wrecks. It was just a sad, terrible thing to see, but I can even barely walk at that point because I had thrown my back out so many times through the stress of the incidents.
GRACE: You and I are making common sense observations, but there will be, we believe, scientific evidence shortly.
Mickey Sherman, you handle a lot of DNA cases. And if these rumors if these tips are true f there have been discovered blood evidence, depending on the date the blood was left, it will be able to be determined as to whether that blood was there after Laci's pregancacy, correct?
SHERMAN: That could be very well a smoking gun. And that's the only smoking gun I've seen. I don't think behavior is going to speak volumes. I'm not so crazy about the evidence of the saltwater. I don't know if the jury will be appreciative of that. But her blood in his car could be very damning.
GRACE: Mickey, the man says he went fishing and his boat is clean of saltwater.
Why would that not have an impact on a jury?
SHERMAN: How do you find out if a boat is free of saltwater?
Have you ever done a test like that?
Have you ever heard of a test like that?
GRACE: Well, I'm not a scientist, but I assume that you can test saltwater by taking a swab. I can't even begin to tell you to what swabs can uncover, Mickey. More than you want to do.
SHERMAN: But it's not traditional evidience that juries like to hear. They want to hear about blood and they want to hear about people lying. But whether it's saltwater or fresh water, that's not going to convict somebody.
GRACE: Let me go to you, Wendy Murphy, there are other unconfirmed reports tonight, that his vacuum cleaner was taken from his home by police, any idea why?
MURPHY: Well, you can bet that the police are suspicious this guy did some cleaning up after he returned home and Laci was missing. I mean their have been reports that he mopped the kitchen floor even though the house clean her been there the day before. And she reportedly has told police that she cleaned the floor the day before. So maybe he's a real clean guy, I don't know, but he's mopped the floor. Now they want the vaccum cleaner. They clearly believe this is someone who was cleaning up after a messy crime scene. That's at least what it appears to be.
You know what, Nancy, briefly on the blood issue, I think there's no question there is important blood evidence in that car. You know why? Scott himself went on national television during his dog and pony show week and he said what? I wouldn't be surprised if they found my blood in the car because I've got bloody hands and I'm dripping all over the place.
And then the question was asked what about Laci's blood? What if they found Laci's blood? He said, sure, what about Laci's blood. That was his state of mind revealing that this was a bloody incident.
GRACE: You and I have revealed as former prosecutors as suspects begin to explain away evidence the police don't know about yet.
Before we go to break, and we have got to go quickly, Dr. Welner, I asked her stepfather, Ron Grantski, if the first time he saw Scott Peterson, that night, on the 24th, What was he wearing? Was he wearing his fishing clothes and Grantski told me no. He had changed into regular clothes. Now that would be normal when your wife is missing, your pregnant wife, for you to go in and get cleaned up and showered and changed clothes?
WELNER: Of course not.
You know, you raised an interesting and important point before. The behavior evidence becomes more important when you have blood evidence. In and of itself it means nothing. But then when you attach it to something physical, the physical expands and then it becomes very important.
GRACE: Well, we're on pins and needles until we hear any confirmation, if there is any to be had on the latest rumors regarding DNA results, everyone.
Stay with us.
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Nancy Grace, in for Larry King tonight. I'm here from Court TV and I want to thank you for being with us.
Let's go out to Ted Rowlands again. He is there on the scene. Ted, you were at the press conference today that was sponsored by Scott Peterson's family. Tell me about it.
ROWLANDS: Actually I wasn't there, but I monitored it and I watched it and listened to it. It was down in San Diego.
Scott's family has been completely supportive of him throughout this and they continue to be. They're based down in San Diego, so they felt they wanted to do something, sort of to show that they, too, are actively searching for Laci. They held this press conference, but they didn't take any questions. It was just a statement pleading people to go to the Internet, download a flyer and put them up in your local neighborhood.
It was a bit disappointing from a reporter's standpoint. No questions at all. There's a real feeling that Scott's family is not taking full responsibility into pushing him a little bit more, pushing him to be more cooperative...
GRACE: I know.
ROWLANDS: ... to mend this gap between the families so they can move on. If he doesn't have anything to do with it, they need to move on.
GRACE: You know, the other night I spoke to a Peterson family member and I was thinking about the press conferences and the statements and -- why don't they ear hold him and drag him into police and sit him down for a polygraph if necessary.
I mean, press conferences are great, but the police want to talk to Scott Peterson.
ROWLANDS: Right, and they just completely support him and you can totally understand that this is a loved member of their family and they just don't want to take that step because they believe him completely.
GRACE: Ted, a question about the facts as we know them to be tonight. It's my understanding that police are waiting, in fact, on DNA results. Is that correct?
ROWLANDS: I wouldn't say -- they're definitely not sitting around waiting. They're doing something every day. They're very, very busy and they are out searching every day. They've got a team of investigators, a team of searchers and those searchers are out every single day looking and looking for some evidence, specifically a body.
They don't want to go to the DA in this city without a body and ask for an arrest warrant. They want that. Plan B, though, they are working on it and they're prepared, according to a source, to go, if need be within weeks.
GRACE: Hold on, let me rephrase. Are they waiting, in fact, on some result from the crime lab?
ROWLANDS: Well, the results are coming in from the crime lab. Eighty percent plus is already in. They're also doing other things daily and they're very busy.
GRACE: OK. I got you.
ROWLANDS: You know, so -- and -- but the big thing is they're looking for a body because, of course, then the case is over.
KLAAS: Well, Nancy, I would counsel the family to increase the searches, not just three through the end of February, but have daily -- or have weekend searches every Saturday and every Sunday. Work with law enforcement, have them professionally led, put the volunteers out there and definitely don't tip your hand. Don't tell the kidnapper where you're going to search. You want to keep that stuff very close to the vest and finally somebody is going to find Laci. She's out there some place.
GRACE: Well, you know, that is how Danielle van Dam's body was found by a team of volunteers, just like you're describing, Marc.
KLAAS: That's exactly right, but they didn't tip their hand. They were out doing searches. They were certainly letting the media know about it. They were letting law enforcement know about it and they did find -- they did find Danielle van Dam.
GRACE: Mickey Sherman, from a defense perspective, what I was getting at with Ted Rowland is police are waiting on some result from the crime lab. They're doing other things naturally to enhance the investigation, But that says to me there's something to be had, that they did find something in that truck or in that boat or in that home that they're trying to get a result back on.
SHERMAN: And obviously it's sophisticated forensic results that they're waiting for. One would assume DNA. I mean, blood typing can be done fairly quickly. And if they're 80 percent through and they don't have an arrest warrant, I'm a little skeptical of whether or not the 20 percent left will make the difference here.
But you know, with her family coming to a press conference, or -- excuse me -- his family, we were so overly cynical. We want to blame him. We want to blame somebody and he's the closest thing we've got right now. It's like we're now saying, Well the family's in on the conspiracy and I think that's unfair.
GRACE: Mickey, once again, a leap of logic. Nobody's blaming this family. All right? But I respect you for throwing that out there, you know, for a smoke screen, you're trying to give viewers tonight.
SHERMAN: It's not a smoke screen.
SHERMAN: And I think that they're entitled to be, you know, very much distraught over the loss of Laci, even though it's their son's or their brother's wife. You know, that doesn't mean their loss is any less.
WELNER: You know, the importance of the families not being at odds with one another are many faceted.
First of all, both families are under enormous stress.
Second of all, all this fighting takes the focus off what it should be.
Third of all, if you want Scott Peterson to be accountable to the family, both families, then the families, first of all, have to stop fighting and then they can deal with Scott.
GRACE: I'm all for Wendy and Dr. Welner, the families to get along, but right now my main concern is where's Laci and can we solve this.
Wendy, speaking forensically, you've handled a lot of DNA cases. Wouldn't you agree that the police are waiting on some DNA result, as Mickey Sherman asserted, it's got to be some sophisticated DNA type test to have taken this long. Weigh in.
MURPHY: I think so, Nancy.
I mean, I'm wondering whether, because of the stage of her pregnancy they're not doing some kind of special test on her hormone level or measuring a combination of things, both DNA and the extent to which she had a certain hormone level. Because, you know, I've been pregnant five times. I can tell you, hormone levels change all the time.
GRACE: So you're the expert. So that means necessarily, of course, you can tell from a woman's blood if she's pregnant or not, but you can tell the level of pregnancy.
MURPHY: That's right. The level goes up and down and they actually go down at the end of the pregnancy. Now I don't know if they go down with enough precision in terms of whether the police can say, Oh, yes, on December 24 she was in this car. But I bet they can narrow the window with enough technology and maybe with enough time -- I bet they can narrow the window to...
MURPHY: ... some small amount of time.
GRACE: Wendy, especially if they have other OBGYN tests to compare it to which they probably do.
Everybody, quick break. Stay with us.
GRACE: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Nancy Grace from Court TV in for Larry tonight.
Mickey Sherman, we're about to close it down for tonight. Final thoughts?
SHERMAN: Well, you know, when we have a crime as heinous as this, a woman in the prime of her life with her child probably murdered but we don't know as far as that's the case yet. We want to find somebody, we want to hold them responsible. And the nearest person is her husband and logic dictates it's probably him.
But I think that we really have to go by presumption of innocence. Let's find out what the police do. Let's find out what they have. Let's not go buy "The Enquirer" or any tabloid or any other guesswork or any other interviews, or things that they didn't say. Let's see what they have.
GRACE: On that I agree with you. I don't want to get the wrong guy. Wendy? MURPHY: But we have to use a little bit of common sense here and I think there's no question when you apply common sense, you can't help, but look only at Scott Peterson.
I watched a little bit of the press conference from his family tonight and I can understand they love their son, they love their brother, they want to believe in his innocence. I'm sure it's a strong urge. But I was just so disappointed to see them throw out there this nonsensical theory that somebody might have taken her because she was pregnant. It's time to stop that nonsense.
GRACE: Wendy, so many people do agree with you. Dr. Welner?
WELNER: In any marriage that's not working, and it's hurdling toward disaster all we need to do is look at this to see how everybody, including Scott Peterson whether he's guilty or innocent, is filled with regret. It's not worth the violent and fatal option.
ROWLANDS: It's going to be interesting in these next few weeks if the police do go to the D.A. without a body. There's no guarantee they can get a conviction. If Scott Peterson maintains his innocence it will be interesting to see and it will put both these families through a very, very long, long road of pain.
GRACE: And finally to you, Marc.
KLAAS: Well, I think that they can find the body if they continue to search and if they get enough people out there looking in enough places.
We have to remember that the Modesto P.D. in the last three years has worked three of the most high profile missing person cases in this country. They know exactly what they're doing.
And finally a piece of advice. If Scott Peterson comes knocking on your door, pretend you're not home.
GRACE: I'm so knocked out about by your new Web site BeyondMissing.com for law enforcement all over this country. Whether they're calling in from New York City or Macon, Georgia, they'll have access to the same resources. Thank you.
And before I sign off, Ted Rowlands, last question, on the reports that are circulating tonight about DNA results, about an imminent arrest, you're telling me that police have advised you an arrest will go down within a few weeks.
ROWLANDS: I'm not saying that police have advised me and it's definitely not imminent. What I'm saying is that there's confidence in that police department that's been there from the beginning and it is confirmed that they are prepared to go ahead, finish what they have to do in the coming weeks, not months there is an end to this from their standpoint with or without a body. GRACE: And, Ted, has there been any suggestion in all of your investigation that there is another suspect, although Scott Peterson has not been named a formal suspect, is there anybody else floating around out there other than Scott that police are following? Searching, investigating?
ROWLANDS: There's no evidence of that. Of course, there were some other theories that they looked into. They did everything in this investigation. Looked at the sex offenders and looked the at everything recall owe. In recent weeks, the focus is centered squarely on Scott Peterson. Although we don't know what it is, we talk about the evidence we're not sure about. They know something, that's the bottom line.
GRACE: And one more, yes, no, Mickey Sherman, of course, that is the kind of focus a single suspect the defense can use later to suggest police ignored the real suspect.
SHERMAN: And I refuse to believe they do. No responsible law enforcement organization will look at only one suspect until that case is solved. It's not responsible.
GRACE: Everyone, we are signing off. Another night with no Laci and no baby. Thank you to Mickey Sherman, Wendy Murphy, Marc Klaas with BeyondMissing.com, Dr. Michael Welner and Ted Rowlands joining us from San Francisco. Thank you, everyone.
Everyone, stay with us.
GRACE: I'm Nancy Grace from Court TV, so proud to be filling in for Larry King tonight. Thank you for being with us.