People's Exhibit 195N & 196N
010403 ─ 2232 02-142591
RECORDED PHONE CONVERSATION BETWEEN AMBER FREY AND SCOTT PETERSON: (January 4, 2003 at 2232 hours)
Page 1 of 40
FREY: (phone ringing) (beep) Hello.
PETERSON: Amber.
FREY: Yes. Can you hear me?
PETERSON: Yeah, barely. Amber?
FREY: Yeah, I’m right here. I could hear you very…very clear.
PETERSON: Amber, I can barely hear you.
FREY: I can…
PETERSON: Are you there?
FREY: I’m talking loud. I don’t…can you hear me?
PETERSON: Yeah, yeah, barely.
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: It’s scratchy.
FREY: Okay. Well, I…I could hear you very clear. Can you hear me?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Did you get my message?
PETERSON: No, what?
FREY: Oh! (sigh) Well, I got into a big fight with my sister when I picked up Ayianna today at my mom’s house. (sigh) You didn’t get that message this morning?
PETERSON: No.
FREY: Well…
PETERSON: You say you sent a message?
FREY: What?
Page 2 of 40 -- January 4, 2003 at 10:32 p.m., People’s 195N
PETERSON: You said…I’m sorry, I heard fight and message.
FREY: Yeah, I got in a fight with my sister.
PETERSON: Why?
FREY: Well, first of all because she didn’t call me and she had Ayianna for three days and then I get her and oh, it was just a big fight.
PETERSON: What was it about? About her not calling?
FREY: About her not calling and then I asked…I don’t…I asked her about Jeff and she got in my face about that and I just…it was just a horrible back and forth. She was saying “go to hell” and all…
PETERSON: Oh, sweetie.
FREY: All in front of the kids and Ayianna was just like oh, my God and I grabbed her and grabbed everything and I took off and…
PETERSON: Oh, sweetheart.
FREY: And it was just…
PETERSON: How cruel. Ah!
FREY: Oh!
PETERSON: Aw!
FREY: And so I just…I was so upset.
PETERSON: I’m so sorry. Did you hear me?
FREY: I could hear you.
PETERSON: Now, did she call you other things or…?
FREY: What?
PETERSON: Was she just very defensive of Jeff?
FREY: Yeah, very.
PETERSON: Yeah.
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FREY: Very.
PETERSON: What’s that? Did you question his…or what happened, tell me what she said.
FREY: I’m sorry, what?
PETERSON: I’m so sorry, but tell me about it if you want to talk about it?
FREY: I don’t know. I just…it’s very upsetting. I…my stomach’s been turning and I’ve eaten some Tumm’s and I’ve been just...oh, upset about it. My dad called and I was like…he said, “So, are you guys coming over?” And I said…or no, no, asked if Ava and Jeff were coming over and I said, “I don’t really care at this point.” And he said well, you know, he asked what was going on. And so I gave him a earful and um…yeah, I’m just…I’m very upset. I mean I don’t even know if…I don’t…I have no desire to talk to her for…for some time.
PETERSON: Oh, I’m so sorry, sweetie.
FREY: Well, the hard part is, you know, Ayianna.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Oh! So yeah, I don’t…
PETERSON: No, she don’t deserve that.
FREY: So, anyway off the subject. I’m still just…just not okay with it.
PETERSON: Yeah. You worry about her, huh?
FREY: About my sister?
PETERSON: No, about Ayianna?
FREY: Well, yeah. I mean I didn’t get…she didn’t call me, it’s three days went by and I’m just, you know, first of all I…the longest I’ve ever been away from her is a night.
PETERSON: Yeah. Yeah. Wow, poor girl.
FREY: So well, anyway I…I did watch that movie last night before…
PETERSON: Did you?
Page 4 of 40 -- January 4, 2003 at 10:32 p.m., People’s 195N
FREY: Yes, I did.
PETERSON: Okay, you got the modern one, right?
FREY: I got the modern one, yes.
PETERSON: And what did you think?
FREY: Well um…
PETERSON: Well, let’s just wait, hold on. We’ll wait on that. Talk to me about…do you want to talk about you arguing with your sister or…?
FREY: No, not really. I’ve been crying all day about it and just upset. So if I could just…I…I…I’m finally calmed…
PETERSON: Okay, I understand.
FREY: I’m finally calmed down from it so…
PETERSON: I’m so sorry, sweetie.
FREY: Oh!
PETERSON: I’m sorry, baby. Wish I was there for you.
FREY: Well, I wish you were too.
PETERSON: I miss you. You don’t deserve any pain or any heartache or any arguments or anything.
FREY: So then why don’t you tell me something good?
PETERSON: Can I tell you how wonderful you are? That’s pretty easy to do. How thoughtful you are and amazing. And I always call you and I tell you you’re special and it’s just not big enough room for it and all the little things…all the neat things that make you up who you are that sometimes it seems the opposite and sometimes they’re so obviously energetic and it’s an amazing combination of attributes that you have. And I need a better bigger word than special to describe it because it’s just amazing. That’s what I was thinking about today. I need a better vocabulary or a book or a thesaurus or something to find the right words to describe you. It’s like um…if you cross the word eclectic and special and thoughtful and caring is not even like a um…let’s see uh…the word used in the Bible for love, Agape.
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FREY: For what?
PETERSON: Agape.
FREY: Agape?
PETERSON: Agape, uh-huh, used to describe the Lord’s love. You’ve got Agape and it’s special and eclectic and I think would be close. There’s no word to describe you. And I thought about you today and there’s no way to describe you. And it would take forever to…just to tell them about the nuances of how wonderful you are. The difficult things you do and just uh…the energy you put out. I struggle. I need to be an author or something in order to express…
FREY: You need to be an author or something?
PETERSON: Well, yeah, I need experience with words to be able to explain. You know, like you could maybe hire a painter to do a portrait of people, right?
FREY: Well…
PETERSON: To try to represent you, you hire a painter that can do a portrait of people to try to represent them?
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: And they really do it, they can come across and it’s _____ (inaudible) and you never know what’s gonna be behind it. And if you look at the portrait you would know who the person is.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: And for me trying to explain to you it’s like I’m drawing a stick figure. I’m that far removed from being able to describe you. I’m drawing stick figures. Maybe an author who’s trained with language could give us a color picture. I don’t think there’s anyone, maybe a poet, maybe an amazing poet, could uh…there’s a poem I read today. Um…I don’t think it was credited with an author, but I’ll try to remember it but it was um…oh uh…under the…oh, I can’t remember the exact words but let me tell you idea, okay? And I’ll get the exact words and I’ll tell you those tomorrow, tomorrow because it’s late there. And it was um…”We huddle under a large tree round with ivy with the storm raging around us. The only thing keeping me grounded are my hands on your waist.
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PETERSON: That was the idea. The words are different and I’ll have the exact words for you, but I really found that referring to you today.
FREY: So you…
PETERSON: It may be silly but…what’s that?
FREY: I said so you’ve been thinking a lot about me?
PETERSON: Yeah, that’s all I did today. And I’m sorry I…I just…I just started rambling and there’s a tear in my eye and it’s trickling and it’s 7:30. So tell me um…you saw the movie?
FREY: Did I what?
PETERSON: Have you rented the movie?
FREY: Yeah, I’ve rented the movie. And…and…
PETERSON: Tell me what you thought?
FREY: Well, the end, you know, I…of New York and or uh…winter in New York.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: I thought that was romantic. That’s just…
PETERSON: Uh-hum. It’s always portrayed as very romantic isn’t it?
FREY: Yes.
PETERSON: Yeah. What about the rest of it?
FREY: And all the rest of it. Why don’t…well, you have something in mind so why don’t you share that with me?
PETERSON: Well, I just wanted to share with you.
FREY: Well, what do you think? Just be honest. I thought it amazing that, you know, they have a…you know, kept capturing each other’s eyes and…and uh…I don’t know, there was just something about the way he looked at her.
PETERSON: Yeah. Are there some beautiful scenes in it?
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FREY: ____
PETERSON: Good. Something you enjoyed or no?
FREY: I enjoyed it. I, you know, when you asked me to watch it and I mean you said you’d talk to me about it later, I just thought well hum…he acts like the end part of them being in New York and that was…
PETERSON: Yeah. Okay, it was a little corny, you know, the end part.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: You gotta…you gotta admit that, okay, but…
FREY: I think I’ve seen parts of it before years ago. Um...
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: I remember the end thought or with, you know, him coming to her and all the…and how that all came about, I thought that was really good.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: That’s…that’s the one part I remember from the movie was uh…
PETERSON: Oh, really. It’s funny, I remember different parts than that.
FREY: Well, you know, from the first time I had watched it, I don’t think I had watched it straight through before.
PETERSON: Yeah. Well, that is kind of a beautiful part now that I think about it. Yeah, okay, it was a little corny but I mean how her pride kind of kept her away?
FREY: Right.
PETERSON: Did you interpret it that way or no?
FREY: Well, yeah, her pride kept her away because she wanted to walk…
PETERSON: Yeah. How sad that was and…
FREY: So what…what part?
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PETERSON: How sad that was that her pride kept her away and…
FREY: I think so.
PETERSON: Yeah. And how totally accepting she was. I’m not supposed to be teared up in the morning, am I?
FREY: Yes, I would think so.
PETERSON: That’s okay.
FREY: Yeah. To be cheery in the morning? Isn’t that when you’re supposed to be the most cheery?
PETERSON: Oh, no, no. I didn’t say cheery.
FREY: Oh, what’d you say?
PETERSON: I said teary, like my eyes are teared up.
FREY: Oh, teary.
PETERSON: And like how I was rambling on about how to describe you, I was tearing up. Before that when you were telling me, I was tearing up.
FREY: You’re tearing?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So you’re tearing because of me?
PETERSON: Oh, not my…I mean they’re different emotions, you know. One is that I’m very sad I can’t be there for you but then regarding the argument…but then when I try to describe you and you see a big smile on my face. _____
FREY: Really?
PETERSON: And I remember the movie, it’s like let’s see I’m trying to remember exactly how it goes, but um…they’re there in Tahiti on the island and after the shipwreck happened like I remember um…when they go and they visit the aunt that Katherine Hepburn plays.
FREY: Uh-hum.
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PETERSON: And it was kinda funny, but how they’re walking there, after they walked to his aunt’s house, right? Yeah.
FREY: What about it? How beautiful it was? The sunset?
PETERSON: No, not just the physical beauty of the landscape, but I don’t know, it was just uh…I guess maybe I’m reading too much into it, but, you know, if they can walk during their life or development or something. I sure liked the movie as you can tell.
FREY: Yeah. Well…
PETERSON: That’s why I asked you to rent it.
FREY: I asked if it was your favorite move and you said no?
PETERSON: I didn’t say that.
FREY: I thought you said it wasn’t. Well, okay.
PETERSON: No, I didn’t say it wasn’t my favorite.
FREY: It is your favorite?
PETERSON: I don’t…
FREY: Or you don’t have a favorite?
PETERSON: Um…that’s kind of a weak answer. ______have a favorite. If I…well, okay, can I pick a favorite in different genres?
FREY: Uh-huh.
PETERSON: Okay, good.
FREY: Can you…wait, say what?
PETERSON: Different genres of movies.
FREY: Different like joggers?
PETERSON: Genres. Different types. Love story, a comedy, horror.
FREY: Oh!
PETERSON: Genre. If I could pick out of all of ‘em that would be hard.
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FREY: You’re voice sounds…it sound kind of cracky so it’s hard to…
PETERSON: Oh, well, it’s early baby.
FREY: Hum?
PETERSON: It’s early and I ____ a few times. Heh-heh!
FREY: Early. What’s that mean? What’s my favorite…
PETERSON: Yeah, if I could pick from different genres I think I could give you a favorite movie.
FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: If I could pick favorite genres…
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: I could pick favorite movies. I could pick the best movie overall, but I couldn’t pick a favorite movie overall.
FREY: So what’s the best movie of all?
PETERSON: Oooh! The best movie ever made is The Shining.
FREY: That’s a scary movie.
PETERSON: But it is the best movie ever made.
FREY: I think you had mentioned that once before.
PETERSON: Did I? It scares the hell out of me.
FREY: It was on…oh, well, I think that’s why I though you brought it up. It had been on time or something. I don’t know, that’s scary. The whole red rum and the bathtub, that’s scary.
PETERSON: Oooh, the two twins (whispering) freak me out, baby.
FREY: The what…two twins? I don’t…I really don’t want to talk about that right before I go to bed.
PETERSON: Oh, I’m sorry. I saw Austin Powers on the plane.
FREY: Huh?
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PETERSON: Remember I saw Austin Powers III on the plane. Do you want to talk about that one?
FREY: Okay, I’ve never seen it so…
PETERSON: Well, it’s kinda nutty. ___________ (unintelligible) That’s why it freaked me out, baby. What’s the best movie ever made in your opinion? Or are am I breaking my rules by asking you that?
FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: I’ve asked you the best movie ever made in your opinion?
FREY: European…oh, in my opinion?
PETERSON: Your opinion, yes.
FREY: My opinion? Oh, you know, I don’t know how the answer that honestly.
PETERSON: Okay. How about if I give you a genre?
FREY: What? What are you saying gen…I still don’t know what you’re saying?
PETERSON: Genre? G-e-n-r-e?
FREY: Gen…
PETERSON: It’s a type of movie. Genre.
FREY: Okay, I never heard that before.
PETERSON: Okay, that just means like different types.
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: So if I gave you romantic comedy, what would be the best or what would your favorite in that genre?
FREY: Romantic comedy? I don’t know. I’d have to hear some examples cause I don’t know what…I don’t know.
PETERSON: Hum? Okay. Uh…romantic comedy.
FREY: Pretty Woman, is that romantic comedy?
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PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Pretty Woman?
PETERSON: Oh, definitely, definitely.
FREY: Really?
PETERSON: And when Harry Met Sally.
FREY: Really?
PETERSON: And when Harry Met Sally.
FREY: Yes.
PETERSON: Pretty Woman, uh…Sleepless in Seattle, I guess would be one. Uh…
FREY: So you’re…you’re a romantic…or a love drama…or a love comedy fanatic?
PETERSON: No, no, not at all. I’m not an action film fanatic I know that much. And I would like to think that I am a intelligent film fanatic.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: I’m not calling myself intelligent, I’m calling the movies that I enjoy, something you have to think about. Like here’s a good one. Have you ever seen the movie The Last Supper?
FREY: Yes, I have.
PETERSON: Have you? See, now there’s a good movie.
FREY: You thought that was a good movie? That people came over and they…what did they…what was it they gave him to eat or was it to drink?
PETERSON: Well, it could be the last supper possibly if they couldn’t change their viewpoints.
FREY: Right.
PETERSON: And if they could change their point of view to a more liberal point of view, they wouldn’t kill them. But they would kill them if they uh…they remained conservative and hateful.
FREY: Uh-hum.
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PETERSON: Yeah. And you didn’t like that movie, huh?
FREY: Um…
PETERSON: It’s okay.
FREY: It’s definitely different. I…I…I…I have some _____ though. But yeah um…I just…cause they kind of look at each other and then there’s like well, there goes another one.
PETERSON: Did you like how…I liked how the supper that they start out with an amazing feast for the guy and then they slowly just uh…they go down hill to pizza. (laugh) And they’re just offing people right and left. The burgers, the pizzas, the ____ and the last supper it should have been.
FREY: Hum!
PETERSON: I…I…I…as you can tell I enjoyed the movie and you don’t, so that’s okay.
FREY: Well, it’s been a while. I mean and it was just different, you know.
PETERSON: Yeah, you’ll have to give me an example…
FREY: I didn’t view it with, you know, I guess the same way as you did so it’s okay.
PETERSON: Okay. Well, here’s some others. How about Chocolat? A really good movie.
FREY: I never saw that.
PETERSON: Uh…”Like Water for Chocolate”?
FREY: Hum?
PETERSON: Do you “Like Water for Chocolate”?
FREY: No, I haven’t seen that.
PETERSON: Harold and Maude?
FREY: Um…that’s an older movie, right?
PETERSON: Yeah.
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FREY: And that’s with a younger guy with an older woman?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Yeah, I…I don’t remember it well enough. It’s been such a long time since I’ve seen it to comment on it.
PETERSON: Yeah. Okay, let’s go more modern. How about Vanilla Sky?
FREY: I haven’t seen it. I…I never…you know, really I just…I don’t watch very much.
PETERSON: That’s okay.
FREY: So…
PETERSON: You don’t have to explain. That’s fine. I was trying to come up with a list of what I could classify as intelligent movies.
FREY: Intelligent movies? I’m trying to…
PETERSON: Oooh, here’s one, Momento.
FREY: No.
PETERSON: Okay.
FREY: There’s one I’m trying to think of that I saw and I thought it was an artistic one, but if you keep talking it’ll come to me.
PETERSON: Hum!
FREY: Um…let see. You know, actually I went to one when it came out um…Meet Joe Black.
PETERSON: Yeah, Meet Joe Black, yeah. Oh, yeah, I really like that one.
FREY: I went and saw that in the theater. Uh…I had a split shift that day and so I went by myself and it was during the day so there were not very many people were there and I watched it and I really…I went into it not expecting or knowing what it was or about. And I’m not…I don’t goo-goo over um…that guy, Brad Pitt.
PETERSON: Right.
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FREY: But I…I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I think, you know, that was very um… moving for me.
PETERSON: Yeah. Okay, great, see, we found a movie that we’ve seen. Hee- hee-hee (laugh)
FREY: What was that? We found a movie to get…?
PETERSON: That we’ve both seen.
FREY: Yeah.
PETERSON: Yeah, I really…I really liked that movie.
FREY: (talking over each other). _____________ was great.
PETERSON: I never saw that.
FREY: With Johnny Depp.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: That was good. Um…
PETERSON: Never saw it.
FREY: What?
PETERSON: Never saw that one.
FREY: Oh!
PETERSON: I have to.
FREY: I’m trying to think of any offhand. Yeah, that was…that one was moving for me too.
PETERSON: I liked uh…Meet Joe Black. That was interesting him learning the world, you know, parts of it, the sayings and like oh, peanut butter.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Now, that’s…
FREY: Like a child, like a child would for the first time. Ooh!
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PETERSON: Wouldn’t it be fun to be able to stay in that mindset of just constant discovery?
FREY: That’s…
PETERSON: Like all ___________
FREY: That’s life is a constant discovery, isn’t it?
PETERSON: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I fall into the trap of I don’t want to say being jaded, but um…acting like things are passé to me instead of experiencing them. And it’s just an ego thing.
FREY: So _____ to you?
PETERSON: No, not at all. I think I’ve expressed my child-like uh…interest and curiosity about you plenty of times haven’t I?
FREY: I think so, but it’s always good to hear.
PETERSON: But it’s something that’s ___________, that other things you uh…could think of fitting in with a crowd or the people you’re with have experienced the same thing.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Occasionally I find myself um…not finding out about new things or not showing my curiosity because I want to, you know, be at that level of knowledge immediately so I won’t have to question so I act like oh, of course. And I need to stop that.
FREY: You need…
PETERSON: Something I’ve been working on for a while. So I’ll act knowledgeable about things when I’m not.
FREY: I understand.
PETERSON: But, you know, with you I feel so open…and open to ask questions about…about things that I don’t know or I’ll simply tell you I need to learn about them, that I don’t know what that is.
FREY: There’s nothing wrong with that.
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PETERSON: No, there’s not. There’s nothing wrong with it. There’s something incredibly wrong with stupidity, but ignorance is different, it’s a different deal and I have to uh…I have to claim my ignorance on more things. Anyway, maybe that could be my New Year’s resolution. Um…so…
FREY: Still don’t have one, huh?
PETERSON: No, I thought of a great one. Um…and I’m pretty good at ____ huh? But yeah, I forgot that it was but uh…
FREY: You know, for as long as it’s taken you, it should be a pretty damn good one.
PETERSON: Oh, it better be one hell of a good one, huh?
FREY: That’s right.
PETERSON: Actually it was…and you know and it had to do with like remember when we were driving and I didn’t answer a guy’s call.
FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: I recall that we were driving somewhere and I didn’t answer a phone call…
FREY: Uh-huh. Well…
PETERSON: And I think we were driving from the uh…market after we had lunch to your house. Anyways, I didn’t answer a phone call because I didn’t want to deal with it, so that’s uh…the heart of what will be my New Year’s resolution.
FREY: What’s that?
PETERSON: That is um…to deal with things that are irritable immediately or, you know, ridiculous immediately. And I have that control up into a larger uh…thoughtful thing about being a better person. And I’ll fine tune that New Year’s resolution on that thought.
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: And I’ll get back to ya. All right, fair enough?
FREY: Fair enough? Are you there?
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PETERSON: Of course. I’m just energized by this conversation. And did you notice it’s mostly me who’s talking?
FREY: I know, that’s unusual.
PETERSON: Strange. Why? is it because I needed to talk to you today.
FREY: Possibly. Do you think?
PETERSON: And do notice how quickly I’m talking like when I said because I didn’t get to talk to you yesterday, I kinda cut all the words out.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Must be understood.
FREY: Do you…you know, you do that often. Well, especially when you’re around me. Remember you…you say or you talk without…what did you say um…what was it the uh…and it uh…you know, those important and’s and then’s and…?
PETERSON: Oh, yeah, you could drop prepositions and…
FREY: Prepositions, that’s what I thought you were saying.
PETERSON: And other words, the conjunctions, and just screw it all and just get to the point. Have you ever seen the movie A Beautiful Mind?
FREY: That’s the one I was trying to thing of with uh…
PETERSON: Now, there’s a good movie.
FREY: That was the one I was…
PETERSON: Russell?
FREY: Yes, that was it. that was why I said keep talking and it will come to me. Yes.
PETERSON: Do you recall there’s one scene in the bar and he just goes up to this girl and uh…something like he said to her uh…”I’m not sure what to say. I don’t know what things I have to do for prevention, but I’m trying to get to a point of intercourse as fast as I can.”
FREY: Um…it’s been a while since I’ve seen it. Okay.
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PETERSON: But anyway, just the clarity of saying hey, screw the rest of it. Let me just tell you what I want.
FREY: Yeah.
PETERSON: And that’s somehow appealing. Yeah, it’s appealing in a lot of ways. But I’m not saying in that ______ obviously. But it’s appealing in many ways just to, you know, cut through the crap.
FREY: You know what was funny I was…let’s see if I can say it…it wasn’t me saying it so it was uh…uh…my friend Eric was telling me about thinking like a man. He was like, you know, men don’t…he was saying something about not falling in love with a woman like, you know, first. It comes after the physical or something like that. And I thought…he’s like well, that’s thinking like a man. You know, a woman, they…they fall and, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to go into the physical first.
PETERSON: Uh-hum, yeah.
FREY: I don’t know. I don’t know if, you know, what…how much truth there is into that, but I don’t know why that just popped in my head.
PETERSON: Well, it makes sense. I mean I ______
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: I mean that _________ to a point further down the road and back, falling in love spectrum than men, you know, before, you know, physical involvement.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: And that’s true.
FREY: I think it takes…I think it takes time. I mean but I don’t know. Um…do you believe in love at first sight?
PETERSON: Hum! Uh…yeah, I do. But you know what um…another thing you’d have to say is that love doesn’t mean that people can be together forever. Does that make sense?
FREY: Well, I…
PETERSON: I think I’m defining love.
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FREY: Me?
PETERSON: Yeah. Well, everyone defines it. Like I think that you can…well, let’s use the term love, okay. Let’s use the term love and Agape.
FREY: And what?
PETERSON: And Agape.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Agape, being a deeper love, okay?
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: Okay, so I’m gonna define love as um…you know, well, strong feelings of love between two people. And Agape as feelings of love between two people along with the ability to grow together and, you know, learn from each other and learn the other and uh…live together and all that.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Okay, so I’m gonna go with ______ yes, you can be in love at first sight. All right, unfortunately that love at first sight thing doesn’t mean that you can have a relationship that will last forever besides, you know, that love.
FREY: I think uh…for me and from what I know love is a choice.
PETERSON: Yeah. What?
FREY: You choose to love someone.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: And, you know, I…I…and it may come to me too, but love, you know, love is patience, love is kind, love is…(sigh), you know, non- righteous. I…you know, there’s a list and I mean I don’t know the chapter in the Bible…
PETERSON: Uh-hum.
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FREY: I’ve seen it and come across it many times, but…but it’s not jealous um…keeping track of the past or whatever. But…so that’s something I always keep in mind is…is, you know, the things that
FREY: involve and, you know, those things. And if there’s any of them lacking, that’s the area I need to work harder on, you know. With me, you know, um…for me, you know, trust of course has been brought up before, you know, what I want, and you know, for me to be able to feel to say that or whatever else I have to know that or be able to feel that in my heart.
PETERSON: Uh-hum.
FREY: Or…or even a little jealousy. I mean well, some people say well, that’s good, but I…
PETERSON: That’s a weird one to me.
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: That’s a weird one to me. People want…I think lots of people want their lover or loved one to be jealous.
FREY: Yeah, I have mixed about that. I just, you know, one, well, it’ll go for that person, you know, they show that…you know, their genuine commitment to you or…or whatever. Maybe that’s not the right word, but at the same time, you know, that trust needs to go up…if that trust is there, then jealousy shouldn’t be an issue, right?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So it’s kind of a…those two kind of weigh together.
PETERSON: Yeah. Well, do you think that um…women in general, not you, um…friends that say that um…okay, you and your man are walking down the street and another guy whistles at you.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: What would be the appropriate response of the male?
FREY: Oooh, I’ve been in that situation more than once.
PETERSON: I bet!
FREY: Well, let’s see, responses that they’ve given and what I felt comfortable with, let’s see.
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PETERSON: Uh-hum.
FREY: (sigh) Well, first of all, you know, for that the…you know, with a man around me or holding my hand, first of all he’s with me and should feel his ego boosted. Hee-hee.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So, you know, if anything a smile and kind of like, you know, that’s right. Um…I guess it would be…I, you know, the response I think would be appropriate. I don’t think hey, f-you buddy, this is my lady is appropriate because that’s like hey, wait a minute, you know, he’s just given me a compliment and giving you a compliment for being with me so that’s my…that’s what I would say.
PETERSON: Uh-hum.
FREY: And to you what is the appropriate behavior?
PETERSON: Oh, you are not allowed to ask that question.
FREY: What?
PETERSON: You can’t ask that question.
FREY: Oh, but I asked it differently now didn’t I?
PETERSON: Hee-hee (laugh). Well, you did, but it’s gonna sound stupid cause that’s exactly my thought is that, you know, that’s like a compliment to me, but now obviously there’s anger uh…a little bit.
FREY: Really?
PETERSON: Yeah, you know, the guy…you know, we get a little possessive and even if it’s not appropriate for me, I don’t whistle at a lady.
FREY: Well, but okay, my other opinion on that it’s disrespectful at the same time for that person to do that.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So I mean…
PETERSON: _______
FREY: So not to disre…disregard that, it is disrespectful at the same time.
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PETERSON: Yeah. I’m not one to yell at the guys, but I think I would…oh, I know I would. Um…I would first take it as a compliment, but additionally I would walk up and talk to them and tell them that it’s disrespectful.
FREY: Yeah. Um…and that’s been a situation I’ve been in before as well. So I mean I’ve been in all the above scenarios that goes along with that.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: And my response when I’m by myself sometimes is just like, you know, I’m not gonna turn…you know, that’s what they’re wanting so I just walk out.
PETERSON: Yeah. How do you take it? Ego boost or intrusion or…?
FREY: Well, its kind of feels uncomfortable.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: You know, it’s like I don’t know, it just kind of makes it out to be put in a spot.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Respect, yeah, it’s just uncomfortable.
PETERSON: See, men have it easy that way because, you know, a compliment like that it’s…
FREY: You don’t view me…
PETERSON: Well, not compliment but…what’s that?
FREY: You said you don’t view me that way?
PETERSON: No, no. I said that men have it easy…
FREY: Oh!
PETERSON: …in that respect because, you know, um…the argument for that is it’s only a compliment, you know.
FREY: Yeah, but you thought it was a compliment when the waiter hit on you. (laugh)
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PETERSON: Oh, it is definitely.
FREY: Okay. But you don’t like guys…you don’t like guys, right?
PETERSON: No, I don’t. But I, you know, hey, if someone thinks I’m attractive, I’ll take it, you know.
FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: You know, you think I’m attractive and that’s, you know, a compliment so I won’t turn it down. But I think now, I can actually say when I was younger obviously I had a different attitude towards, you know, everything we just talked about so…
FREY: You’re kind of cutting out a little bit.
PETERSON: Well, when I was younger I had a different attitude towards everything we just talked about so...
FREY: What was your attitude then?
PETERSON: Well, much more ______than that. You know, I’m not half the turd as I was when I was 18. I’m still a turd.
FREY: A total jerk, is that what you said?
PETERSON: Turd.
FREY: Turd?
PETERSON: Yeah. I was…
FREY: You said turd? Well, jerk would fit just as well so…
PETERSON: It would.
FREY: Well, I don’t know.
PETERSON: Yeah, so yeah, either one, either one. But yeah, I’ve mellowed and I’m uh…I know…I’m more knowledgeable now. Anyways.
FREY: Well, that’s a part of growing older and wiser.
PETERSON: Yeah. Isn’t it nice to become…well, you’ve probably always been marvelous, but at least I can be proud of my less than turd-like behavior at this point as opposed to my turd-like behavior before.
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PETERSON: Can you credit um…I don’t know if you should use the same transformation of yourself, I guess I could say that you’ve probably always marvelous or…?
FREY: Yeah.
PETERSON: But like um…a mentor or somebody that says wow, I like that attribute. I want to be more like that. Can you pinpoint one person?
FREY: Yes.
PETERSON: And who is it?
FREY: Uh…her name is Marion Martino.
PETERSON: Yeah. Tell me about her.
FREY: Well, she’s…well, when I was going to massage school actually it was the first time that I ever thought that that, you know, I admired her as, you know, as a woman and well, a woman I admire um…you know, in the present that um…just her whole…her…her…herself. I…I can remember just specifically thinking that I…I admire her just…just because…just because of her accomplishments and, you know, and…and also, you know, she was my instructor and she…I look at her as my mentor. And I don’t know her to elaborate any more than that but that her name, Marion Martino.
PETERSON: Did you see mostly um…professional or a career…?
FREY: Yes.
PETERSON: Okay. And what do you want to achieve?
FREY: And you? Who’s your mentor?
PETERSON: Yeah, I can pinpoint one guy.
FREY: And who’s your mentor.
PETERSON: And it was opposed to career and those kinds of things it was um…he kind of I think…I think really changed my life. Hugh Gerhart.
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PETERSON: Yes.
FREY: Who’s that?
PETERSON: He was um…volleyball coach at school, Arizona State where I went. And I assisted him and uh…yeah, he changed absolutely who I am…
FREY: How’s that?
PETERSON: …so much. It’s amazing. So I have to…
FREY: How long ago?
PETERSON: You know, I don’t think I ever got to thank him.
FREY: How long ago um…would you…or did you look up to him as your mentor?
PETERSON: Oh, it was in 1990.
FREY: 1990?
PETERSON: ’90 and ’91.
FREY: Oh, so it was a while ago. it was more so recent for me.
PETERSON: Yeah. But you know what it’s…it’s like five years later I’m still making changes in myself to be more like Hugh.
FREY: To be more like who?
PETERSON: Hugh.
FREY: Hugh?
PETERSON: Hugh, yeah, that was his name.
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: That’s a tough one to say on a mobile phone isn’t it?
FREY: I know. It sounds like you’re saying you, and I’m like what?
PETERSON: Hugh.
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FREY: Me?
PETERSON: (laughing) No, no, I haven’t know you for five years. There are things I’ve told you. Uh…you’ve changed how I am.
FREY: Well, I knew you had said before, “People a year ago probably thought, you know, would say I’m an asshole”, but, you know, um…
PETERSON: Well, let me back pedal like seven years. (laugh)
FREY: What was that?
PETERSON: Let’s back pedal to like seven years ago. Maybe I said a year, but, you know, I don’t think people liked me a year ago.
FREY: That you’re an asshole?
PETERSON: Not a year ago. Seven years ago, yeah. (laughing) Yeah. Yeah so…
FREY: Do people now see you as…?
PETERSON: Oh, I don’t know. I told you what I want people to see me as.
FREY: What do you want people to see you as?
PETERSON: No, no, I told you.
FREY: Oooh! Hum!
PETERSON: Oh, I’m sure you probably…I hope, I don’t know. I think people see me as uh…closer to what I want than ever. The changes we’ve both gone through, transformations like that. What percentage of the population do you think has?
FREY: Has what?
PETERSON: Well, you know, you can see people good or bad that you knew when you were like, you know, let’s say 12 to 16 years old.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: And they haven’t changed a bit.
FREY: How many people do I know?
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PETERSON: Well, I’m talking about percentages. And then you look at people like us.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: And I said no one would recognize us based on behavior or attitude who knew us when we were in that age range, 12 to 16, versus who we are now.
FREY: I’d agree with that.
PETERSON: So do you think you and I are…
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: …in the 20 percent of the population or is it higher?
FREY: Do what?
PETERSON: Uh…you and I and the rest of us who can’t be recognized from when we were that age…(beep) based on attitude and stuff, um…a large percent of the population or a smaller percent? Do you think most people haven’t changed or most people have?
FREY: Most people have.
PETERSON: Really?
FREY: Yeah. I don’t know. That’s a…that’s a…okay, so not a physical, but a…?
PETERSON: Yeah, like, you know, I’m physically the same throughout my life. I mean I’ve see people who haven’t seen me in 25 years. Ooh, you look the same.
FREY: Right.
PETERSON: You know, so…
FREY: Well, for me…
PETERSON: But mentally I have.
FREY: People I’ve…yeah, mentally changed. Physically? You know, that’s hard to say. I…I mean the people I run into from high school or I can’t say elementary because I’ve went to too many to make
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FREY: friends with them so. Some high school people I’ve run into, well, they’ve all changed considerably to where it kind of…I kind of take a second look. And, you know, even Marses when I hadn’t seen him for two years, he put on like 60 pounds. I didn’t recognize him.
PETERSON: Right. But I’m talking just about like attitude and…?
FREY: Attitude. Just depends on what…how life treats…you know, treats an individual.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So I mean that’s…all individuals…
PETERSON: Do you think they change, or attitude change?
FREY: Most? No, I don’t.
PETERSON: No?
FREY: Do you?
PETERSON: No, I don’t at all. I think it’s very small.
FREY: Hum?
PETERSON: Because most people appear exactly the same.
FREY: But you think you’re changed quite a bit? You’re not…
PETERSON: What’s that?
FREY: I said but you’ve change quite a bit because you’re not an asshole, is that…?
PETERSON: Oh, yeah. God, you’re lucky.
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: You’re lucky.
FREY: Why am I lucky?
PETERSON: I’ve changed.
FREY: So I’m lucky cause you’re changed cause you’re so sweet?
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PETERSON: Well, maybe I’m lucky that I’ve changed because I got to meet you. Maybe that’s how I should have said it, huh?
FREY: Possibly.
PETERSON: Okay. Ha-ha-ha (laugh)
FREY: So um…I don’t…I don’t know if I even should bring it up or…
PETERSON: Amber, are you there?
FREY: Yeah, I’m here.
PETERSON: Amber?
FREY: I’m here.
PETERSON: Amber?
FREY: Hello?
PETERSON: Shit! Amber, are you there?
FREY: Yeah. Hello?
PETERSON: Amber?
FREY: Hola.
PETERSON: Hey.
FREY: Hola.
PETERSON: Yeah, that’s in Spanish.
FREY: (laugh) I said Hola.
PETERSON: Hum!
FREY: Ayianna says hola now.
PETERSON: That’s cool.
FREY: And she says hola…or hello.
PETERSON: Awesome.
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FREY: She got a little…she got a little Dora the Explorer doll that speaks Spanish and a little Spanish and English. _____
PETERSON: (laugh) That’s awesome.
FREY: It’s cute. She’s just so cute and…
PETERSON: Yeah, she’s precious. Where is she right now?
FREY: Sleeping.
PETERSON: Where?
FREY: She’s actually in her little spot in my room.
PETERSON: Yeah. Cute.
FREY: Yeah, she’s…she was smothering my lips today. (laugh)
PETERSON: (laugh) That’s cute. What time did you get her home at?
FREY: What time did I get her home?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Um..well, after I picked her up from my mom’s I was so upset, I was crying. I called Shawn and told her I got in a fight. I was actually supposed to go to a lingerie party tonight and…
PETERSON: Oh, yeah?
FREY: It’s not like a lingerie…lingerie party. It was um…more like…more like I don’t even know, more like a Tupperware type thing but for pajamas and underwear, like it’s not real sexy. There’s some sexy stuff, but not like Victoria’s Secret, I guess, I don’t know…I don’t know, it’s tame.
PETERSON: Huh, you’re funny.
FREY: Tame…tame lingerie. Well, anyway…
PETERSON: Okay.
FREY: I had to call her and I was crying and she was like okay. You know, she asked if I um…I…I was going to church and that she wanted me to go with her. And I said, “Well, you know what, I don’t go to
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FREY: People’s anymore.” So I thanked her and I said, you know, I said…she was like, “Okay, well, I hope, you know, things work out between you two and sorry you won’t be here.” So I called Shawn and she had me meet her for dinner and so we spent time and I just vented about my sister and how uh…frustrating she can be.
PETERSON: Great.
FREY: And um…and uh…(sigh) so I don’t know what time I got home.
PETERSON: That’s okay, sweetie.
FREY: But afterwards I felt like, you know, after I ate and everything else my stomach had been so upset I ate some Tumms and I’m feeling a lot better now than I did…
PETERSON: Good.
FREY: …before so…be and…
PETERSON: Uh-huh.
FREY: I…oh, well, it’s just…I don’t…when she tells me, “I don’t want it”, or, “I want…”, whatever it is she wants, “I want milk, I want cheese, I want water”, it’s just so awesome.
PETERSON: That’s cool. That’s really neat.
FREY: She’s…she is definitely…
PETERSON: I can’t wait to see it.
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: I can’t wait to hear it.
FREY: Well, she’s…I said by the time you see her, get to see her and come back, she’s gonna be already…
PETERSON: That’ll be fun.
FREY: …so much bigger. Her hair’s already grown so much. She cut two more molars.
PETERSON: Yeah, wow!
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FREY: Um…I noticed those had been coming in um…a couple weeks ago and so I…she was drooling a little bit, which was kinda fun.
PETERSON: (laughing) That’s cool.
FREY: So you’re coming…you’re coming back the 25th huh?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: I don’t even know what today is (chuckling).
PETERSON: I don’t know either. Isn’t the 10th or something?
FREY: I think it’s Friday. I know it’s right before Saturday.
PETERSON: Saturday, yeah.
FREY: But it’s…yeah. So…but today though the client I worked on that uh…it was one of the chiropractors across the way referred her…or she had been seeing Damien.
PETERSON: Uh-huh.
FREY: He couldn’t work on her today so I worked on her and she was, you know, back with me so that’s kind of…that’s good for me (giggle).
PETERSON: Yeah, that sounds cool.
FREY: So that’s…
PETERSON: I got a message today too.
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: I got a message today.
FREY: You did?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: You keep cutting out. Hello? Hello?
PETERSON: Amber?
FREY: I could hear you cutting out though. You’re in and out. I can…are you there?
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PETERSON: Yeah, I’m here.
FREY: Okay. You just kind of cut out for a second.
PETERSON: Well, yeah.
FREY: So you got a massage today?
PETERSON: I did.
FREY: And how…?
PETERSON: Well, actually last night, your today.
FREY: I know, like I said that’s still confusing and…
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: …you know, so…
PETERSON: That’s not good because of…____________________(inaudible).
FREY: What was…?
PETERSON: It was 8:00 o’clock last night when I went to dinner and came home and passed out from an awesome massage and…it was good, I needed it.
FREY: So what did you like about the massage?
PETERSON: I don’t know. Nothing specifically different. Maybe just because I needed one.
FREY: Uh-hum.
PETERSON: Traveling and falling on my hip.
FREY: Gosh! How is your green, bruised hip?
PETERSON: You laugh, but it’s pretty green, pretty gross. Pretty stupid, huh?
FREY: Yeah, when was that? That was a couple nights ago, huh?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Well, a couple days ago or a few days ago for you?
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PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: I know I…I had just went to the bathroom and I heard the phone ring and I was like well, can’t get to the phone so I got your message.
PETERSON: (chuckling) Yeah.
FREY: I said oh, my goodness.
PETERSON: Yeah. Okay, sweetheart, I know it’s late for you.
FREY: What?
PETERSON: I know it’s late for you so you should go to sleep.
FREY: I didn’t hear you. What?
PETERSON: It’s late for you.
FREY: Yeah, but it’s Saturday so…
PETERSON: You should go to sleep. I know, but it’s late and it’s early for me here and I have to get going.
FREY: You have to meet someone right now?
PETERSON: No, get a plane. I gotta get packed, going to Madrid.
FREY: Really?
PETERSON: Uh-hum (affirmative).
FREY: You didn’t…you didn’t say you were leaving. What’s in Madrid?
PETERSON: That’s where the production office is.
FREY: Production office for what?
PETERSON: Well, the manager at the factory lives in Madrid. Up here in Brussels it’s just the financial headquarters.
FREY: Uh-hum.
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PETERSON: And then production headquarters is in Madrid. So I’m going down there for at least Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So I’m gonna use hola.
FREY: You’re gonna use what?
PETERSON: I’ll be saying hola a lot more instead of bonjour.
FREY: Oh, bonjour.
PETERSON: I’ll have to go with hola.
FREY: Hola? But hola is…?
PETERSON: And qui.
FREY: Qui! (chuckling) But hola is like hi isn’t it?
PETERSON: Yeah, so okay.
FREY: Hola?
PETERSON: And buenas dias and buenas tardes and, you know, Buenos noches and hasta luego and stuff like that. What’s that?
FREY: It’s more like see you later, ______________(unknown foreign language) see you later.
PETERSON: I don’t know those. I just use um…uh…luego.
FREY: Um…there’s probably a few more out there. I just can’t think of ‘em, but they’re Swahili.
PETERSON: Yeah. Oh, okay. See, now, okay, there’s the difference. Swahili.
FREY: ______________________ (unknown foreign language). Um…
PETERSON: That doesn’t sound like Spanish to me.
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FREY: _________________________? (unknown foreign language) Well, there’s…meza is table in…in Swahili and it’s also in Spanish so there’s some…it’s a trade language so there are gonna be some…
PETERSON: Huh? That’s cool.
FREY: And there’s Spanish and then there’s…
PETERSON: You gotta talk more Swahili to me.
FREY: Well, I asked you what time it was?
PETERSON: You said what?
FREY: __________________ (speaking in another language)
PETERSON: How cool.
FREY: What time is it?
PETERSON: You know I’m _______________ and the one word I’m looking to express you’re being a uh…an Agape special word.
FREY: Yeah, but you speak Spanish, right?
PETERSON: Yeah, I do okay.
FREY: And what other language?
PETERSON: Uh…my French has gotten a lot better in the last week?
FREY: Well, I’m sure it would. You’ll be sweeping me off my feet and I have no idea what you’re saying (chuckle).
PETERSON: (laughing) Sounds good to me.
FREY: And if your French…yeah. Well, it is a beautiful language. It definitely is.
PETERSON: Yeah, no question.
FREY: You know um…I’m not sure yet, and I’m not like gonna put a date down yet until it’s confirmed, but my dad’s girlfriend’s getting uh…custody of her grandkids and uh…I still might go to Hawaii after all.
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PETERSON: Oh, awesome! Are the kids there?
FREY: Yeah, they’re in foster care there so…I’m not sure yet. He said he would let me know um…
PETERSON: When is the potential?
FREY: Well, he was even saying maybe next week.
PETERSON: Oh, wow! Wow!
FREY: I have such a full schedule already next week (talking over each other) and the following week because um…these are…a lot of ‘em are new clients, so of course…and then regulars of course. So I…I…he said it probably…he was looking, you know, it would…may take 3 or 4 days, but it depends on how difficult it is to get the kids back.
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: Or to get them out and everything else. So I don’t know, it’s kinda scary. I’m like oh, my God, my dad’s gonna have four kids running around (laughing).
PETERSON: Amazing.
FREY: Yeah. I think there’s…I don’t know their ages. I know one’s maybe…you know, my nep…my oldest nephew’s age, but um…what a new year, I mean…
PETERSON: Yeah, sudden changes.
FREY: My dad’s getting new…new kids. They’re just…I still have a hard time with thinking that wow, my dad couldn’t even handle two let alone one, my little one, you know. He can’t keep her for two hours, you know, I’m thinking how’s he gonna handle four kids?
PETERSON: (laughing).
FREY: They’re probably gonna be over at my place. I don’t know.
PETERSON: Well, you need to blow off your schedule so you can go.
FREY: Yeah, I’ll have to figure that out. And…and it’ll just depend though um…you know, they still have to do things. She…I don’t know, I don’t even…
Page 39 of 40 -- January 4, 2003 at 10:32 p.m., People’s 195N
PETERSON: It might take a while, huh?
FREY: It might, yeah. I think he’s…they’re wanting to do it right away, but I don’t know if it’s gonna happen. I don’t know so…
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: So how…how’re you doing this New Year’s?
PETERSON: What’s that?
FREY: I said how are you doing this New Year?
PETERSON: Um…happy at times, sad at others, that type of thing.
FREY: Yeah. I just yeah, you know, I just know you…that this was gonna be a hard holiday for you where…
PETERSON: Well, I don’t think about it. Amber, you go to sleep now, I miss you. And I’ll see you soon, huh?
FREY: Yeah, I…
PETERSON: Amber?
FREY: Yeah, a couple weeks. Is it getting to be a couple? Could it be a couple or even a few?
PETERSON: Yeah, I like the word couple.
FREY: Huh?
PETERSON: I like the word couple, let’s go with that.
FREY: You like the word couple?
PETERSON: Yeah.
FREY: You know, I don’t think you…well, maybe you did, never mind. Good night.
PETERSON: I’ll talk to you soon.
FREY: All right. Well, you have a good day, okay?
PETERSON: I’ll call you your morning?
Page 40 of 40 -- January 4, 2003 at 10:32 p.m., People’s 195N
FREY: You’ll call me my morning?
PETERSON: Yeah, before church.
FREY: Okay.
PETERSON: Bye, sweetie.
FREY: Bye.
PETERSON: Sleep well. Bye.
FREY: Bye.
(beep)